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Vargur vs Golem after rubicon
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Lirs Corum
Useless Idea
Kybernauts Clade
#1 - 2014-01-05 23:17:37 UTC
Which has better income in PVE after Rubicon changes?
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#2 - 2014-01-06 03:33:36 UTC
in wormholes, golem. vargur cant hit battleships at 70+ km properly.

but paladin is king, beats both vargur and golem. has tracking to hit cruisers, and range to hit battleships. beautiful boat.
Drago Katsov
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-01-06 14:18:21 UTC
Using T2 ammo a Vargur can in fact kill BS at 70km. With my current fit I have a 10k Optimal and a 117km fall off. A proper fir Vargur can still instapop frigs and destroyers at range, 2 shot cruisers and BCs, and shreds BS.
Lirs Corum
Useless Idea
Kybernauts Clade
#4 - 2014-01-06 18:08:49 UTC
So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur.

Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower.

Right?
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#5 - 2014-01-06 18:16:38 UTC
Lirs Corum wrote:
So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur.

Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower.

Right?


Keep in mind that a Marauder makes a nice, big, fat, slow moving juicy target.
But cruise missiles are actually in a pretty good place right now so that is the major advantage to the Golem.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-01-06 18:35:53 UTC
Lirs Corum wrote:
So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur.

Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower.

Right?



cruisers go down quickly to precision cruise missiles. frigates pop to smartbombs. its the battleships that are a problem, but furies apply full damage, whereas vargur grazes a lot beyond 50km.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-01-06 18:37:02 UTC
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
Lirs Corum wrote:
So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur.

Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower.

Right?


Keep in mind that a Marauder makes a nice, big, fat, slow moving juicy target.
But cruise missiles are actually in a pretty good place right now so that is the major advantage to the Golem.


yes marauders are nice targets, we lost a lot to ganks and stopped doing it. back to tengu!
Lirs Corum
Useless Idea
Kybernauts Clade
#8 - 2014-01-10 01:02:01 UTC
Imagine tahat there are no gankers :)

What would be better for L4 and W-space?
Mister Simms
Society for Miner Education
#9 - 2014-01-10 01:34:11 UTC
I don't know didly about Golems, but from my xp cruise missiles are fine against cruisers if you have a TP fit and use the right missile. Precision are great, but even faction for T1 cruise do fine on the cruiser sized sleepers. The right rigs and skill set helps of course.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2014-01-10 09:42:26 UTC
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
Lirs Corum wrote:
So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur.

Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower.

Right?


Keep in mind that a Marauder makes a nice, big,
  • fat, slow moving juicy target.
    • But cruise missiles are actually in a pretty good place right now so that is the major advantage to the Golem.
    No not slow.. imobile..

    and you forgot to add damm tough nuts to crack as well.


    "If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
    Kagura Nikon
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #11 - 2014-01-10 09:43:34 UTC
    Lirs Corum wrote:
    Imagine tahat there are no gankers :)

    What would be better for L4 and W-space?



    Golem period. Vargur was the marauder that gained less from bastion. Falloff bonus is very small on bastion and the non mobility hurts vargur far more than other marauders.

    Vargur is goodonly agaisnt things that throw themselves intto it.

    "If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
    Heavensend
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #12 - 2014-01-10 11:12:43 UTC
    Kagura Nikon wrote:
    [quote=Lirs Corum]

    Vargur is goodonly against things that throw themselves into it.


    Thats the fact. Vargur will perform very well against Angels (you may use Barrage then) and missions were ships will orbit you at low orbits e.g. Angel Extra.
    Batelle
    Federal Navy Academy
    #13 - 2014-01-10 14:41:27 UTC
    Kagura Nikon wrote:

    Golem period. Vargur was the marauder that gained less from bastion. Falloff bonus is very small on bastion and the non mobility hurts vargur far more than other marauders.

    Vargur is goodonly agaisnt things that throw themselves intto it.


    good point about it being hurt by lack of mobility, but a cruise golem doesn't doesn't exactly get much from the extra range either.

    "**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

    Never forget.
    Lirs Corum
    Useless Idea
    Kybernauts Clade
    #14 - 2014-01-10 16:36:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Lirs Corum
    So it seems that

    Golem > Vargur

    In most situations.

    What about Kronos? I like blasters and I have some skills but they arent good for PvE so far (still got T1 blasters).

    Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions?
    Odithia
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #15 - 2014-01-10 17:07:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Odithia
    Lirs Corum wrote:

    Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions?



    All gunboat with short range weaponand 1 unloaded tracking comp.
    Cruise Golem with 2 painter
    4 Damage mod for everyone


    Dark Blue Golem
    Cyan Kronos
    Red Paladin
    Green Vargur

    short range faction ammo
    http://imgur.com/mepYhyW

    long range t2 ammo
    http://imgur.com/YrP2aaU
    Novah Soul
    #16 - 2014-01-10 19:37:39 UTC
    Lirs Corum wrote:
    So it seems that

    Golem > Vargur

    In most situations.

    What about Kronos? I like blasters and I have some skills but they arent good for PvE so far (still got T1 blasters).

    Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions?

    I don't have any experience flying a blaster Kronos but toyed with one on a fitting tool. With neutron blasters and void ammo, while in bastion, it gets something like 27k optimal and 50k falloff, at around 1000 dps. Doesn't seem too bad, minus the diminishing results of falloff, of coarse.

    With a pulse fit Paladin, you will be looking at a 90k optimal with scorch loaded which gives roughly 900 dps. Multis are somewhere around the 30 + 20 range and listed at 1100ish dps.

    Sorry for the inexact numbers, doing it from memory What?

    A man is known by the quality of his friends. - Lex Luthor
    Oska Rus
    Free Ice Cream People
    #17 - 2014-01-10 19:58:08 UTC
    what about rails kronos?
    Zor'katar
    Matari Recreation
    #18 - 2014-01-10 20:10:29 UTC
    Lirs Corum wrote:
    So it seems that

    Golem > Vargur

    In most situations.

    What about Kronos? I like blasters and I have some skills but they arent good for PvE so far (still got T1 blasters).

    Is there any gunboat that is good for all kind of L4 missions?

    Keep in mind that there are quite a few ships that can be considered "good for all kind of L4 missions", both the Golem and Vargur included. What's being argued about is a few situational differences and percentage points of efficiency, but they're both perfectly capable of doing any L4 comfortably. Choose the one that looks more interesting to you.
    Anya Klibor
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #19 - 2014-01-13 17:16:56 UTC
    LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
    Lirs Corum wrote:
    So generaly in WH space Golem should be better then Vargur.

    Eaven if killing anything smaller then BS will be slower.

    Right?



    cruisers go down quickly to precision cruise missiles. frigates pop to smartbombs. its the battleships that are a problem, but furies apply full damage, whereas vargur grazes a lot beyond 50km.


    Speaking from my own experiences and not those of others, my Vargur using 800s did not have problems engaging targets out to roughly 96 kms. At 57 km and using RF EMP I was hitting for solid damage, very rarely getting anything less than a "hits" report. Little grazing or anything. Making blanket statements doesn't help your argument.

    For reference, my fit:

    [Vargur, Mission/PvP]
    Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
    Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
    Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
    Domination Tracking Enhancer
    Damage Control II

    Pith X-Type X-Large Shield Booster
    Pithum C-Type Adaptive Invulnerability Field
    Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
    Republic Fleet 100MN Microwarpdrive
    Imperial Navy Cap Recharger
    Imperial Navy Cap Recharger

    800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
    800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
    800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
    800mm Repeating Cannon II, Republic Fleet EMP L
    Bastion Module I
    Salvager II
    Salvager II
    Salvager II

    Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
    Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II

    Hammerhead II x5

    Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
    Batelle
    Federal Navy Academy
    #20 - 2014-01-13 17:26:19 UTC
    Anya Klibor wrote:

    Speaking from my own experiences and not those of others, my Vargur using 800s did not have problems engaging targets out to roughly 96 kms. At 57 km and using RF EMP I was hitting for solid damage, very rarely getting anything less than a "hits" report. Little grazing or anything. Making blanket statements doesn't help your argument.


    I call bull. There is no way you're doing 'solid damage' to targets 96 km away with 800s and a 53km falloff. That's a blanket statement I feel very comfortable making.

    "**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

    Never forget.
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