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Have Goons become the very thing they hated?? (i.e. BoB)

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#161 - 2014-01-10 16:49:08 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
words

Nobody cares.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#162 - 2014-01-10 16:49:47 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
OGB makes it a little easier for smaller forces to engage larger ones and win. It shouldn't be nerfed.

carriers + drone assist do this too.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#163 - 2014-01-10 17:06:35 UTC
March rabbit wrote:

carriers + drone assist do this too.


By rendering every subcap useless.
JitaPriceCheckingAlt
Doomheim
#164 - 2014-01-10 17:46:20 UTC
If you think stuffing as many warm bodies in trash compositions into a system as you can consists of "every subcap" then yeah you're right.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#165 - 2014-01-10 17:48:35 UTC
JitaPriceCheckingAlt wrote:
If you think stuffing as many warm bodies in trash compositions into a system as you can consists of "every subcap" then yeah you're right.


Please name the subcap fleet that can kill the slowcat fleet.
JitaPriceCheckingAlt
Doomheim
#166 - 2014-01-10 17:54:35 UTC  |  Edited by: JitaPriceCheckingAlt
baltec1 wrote:
JitaPriceCheckingAlt wrote:
If you think stuffing as many warm bodies in trash compositions into a system as you can consists of "every subcap" then yeah you're right.


Please name the subcap fleet that can kill the slowcat fleet.


Just one doctrine? None because that's ******* dumb, if you have a competent FC and a not trash composition you'll be fine not that I'm going to tell you because I'm not going to teach you how to not be terrible.

Beating a capital fleet with purely sub-capitals though? You keep crying for balance, yet you want the one Capital fleet that can fight on equal footing with Sub Caps and survive nerfed essentially regulating all game balance to sub cap warfare because after that not many people with use Capitals (This includes dreads).

The current balance is fine, subcaps can beat capitals if they use the right compositions and capitals can survive mass amounts of subcaps again if they use the right composition and fitting.

Essentially there needs to be a balance between Numbers and SP/ISK, right now that exists. Move to a non-**** composition or commit some better assets than trash subcap fleets.

Though don't even know why I'm saying this because the only balance you want is numbers.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#167 - 2014-01-10 18:07:48 UTC
Quote:
The current balance is fine, subcaps can beat capitals if they use the right compositions


You're still refusing to actually say what that is, though.

I mean, if you're talking about being forced to bring the kind of numbers that crash the node just to fight N3, then you're basically trying to tell me that they should be invincible.

Which is not the right answer.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#168 - 2014-01-10 18:08:30 UTC
JitaPriceCheckingAlt wrote:


Just one doctrine? None because that's ******* dumb, if you have a competent FC and a not trash composition you'll be fine not that I'm going to tell you because I'm not going to teach you how to not be terrible.

Beating a capital fleet with purely sub-capitals though? You keep crying for balance, yet you want the one Capital fleet that can fight on equal footing with Sub Caps and survive nerfed essentially regulating all game balance to sub cap warfare because after that not many people with use Capitals (This includes dreads).

The current balance is fine, subcaps can beat capitals if they use the right compositions and capitals can survive mass amounts of subcaps again if they use the right composition and fitting.


Again when pushed the defenders have no answers.

So let me tell you. In order to kill an archon we would need 1600 megathrons. When we add in all of the support that goes with that fleet we get a force of over 2000 pilots needed and even then, victory is unlikely as the carriers will soon kill enough megathrons that their firepower is not enough to break their tanks or the node will simply die. We could revive the old alpha maelstroms but again, while we may take a few carriers down they will be killing us far more quickly and we would soon lack the needed numbers or the node would simply die.

So, name me the organisations with the ability the field these numbers and keep them reinforced as they lose huge numbers.
Logical 101
PowerCow Farm
#169 - 2014-01-10 18:14:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Logical 101
JitaPriceCheckingAlt wrote:
if you have a competent FC and a not trash composition you'll be fine not that I'm going to tell you because I'm not going to teach you how to not be terrible

I'm sorry, but this is the dumbest ****ing thing I've read all day.

Your FC could be Jesus Christ himself and even he couldn't pull a miracle out of his ass that could trump the sheer mathematical improbability of countering that much raw focus with comparatively dinky subcaps. It's simply unreasonable to expect a counter that isn't equally as insanely overpowered and, in effect, conflict-breaking.

And bear in mind, I say this with no real affection for GSF.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#170 - 2014-01-10 18:17:18 UTC
Im going to go for...

No

As my answer


Grroons aren't actually claiming to be saviours of the universe while actually being scumbags

Usually they are claiming to be scumbags while accidently saving the universe

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#171 - 2014-01-10 18:28:56 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Charlie Firpol wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Priestess Lin wrote:
Aren't you supposed to be training Nagflars or something? Your great leaders orders. Or was he drunk that time too? Lol

JDO 5 in queue. But having a counter doesn't automatically make something balanced.


But isnt "something isnt counterable, unless you bring n+1 of the same" your definition of imbalanced? Like I wrote before in this thread, I think it is too soon to already nerf the hell out of drone assists (and thats whats going to happen, if anything happens). The probable counters havent even been properly tested on field yet.

No it isn't. That would be a sure sign of imbalance, but the existence of other counters is not proof of balance.


Burden of Proof. Learn about it. Existence of counters is strong evidence of balance. To counter that you need to prove imbalance. (I.e. provide evidence of imbalance that is stronger still.) Whining "but it doesn't prove balance!" is a logical error. You can always claim something isn't "proven" in an absolute sense no matter how strong the evidence. Critical thinking and reasoning skills are your friend.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#172 - 2014-01-10 18:30:06 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Too bad DBRB is right.

I don't believe anyone here is so stupid as to actually believe that raw numbers are balanced. They're either the ones currently using them and are being intentionally dishonest in order to convince people they're fine, or they're random pubbies who don't have anything intelligent to contribute and think they're being clever.


Andski wrote:
because surprise surprise the idea of a single person having direct control over the DPS/alpha of 255 other ships ticks all of the boxes of "this is a ridiculous mechanic"

you're free to try to refute that with weaksauce/stupid/wrong arguments


But a single person being able to guide 250 people around a grid or make 250 people warp at the same time is somehow ok right?


baltec1 wrote:

Again when pushed the defenders have no answers.

So let me tell you. In order to kill an archon we would need 1600 megathrons.


Guys, guys, why won't you explain how to kill us guys?

Also the Mega thing is way off, but nice try, you killed sentry carriers with only 1k Megas, everything worked fine.


But really, the proof is in the pudding, so here's my challenge to the CFC:


If you think Sentry carriers are so unkillable, you put 300 carriers alone in an unjammed system down here in the south.

I will show you how to kill them.

If this isn't something that you're willing to do, I guess that will close this argument down once and for all right?

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Lazy Eagle
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#173 - 2014-01-10 18:35:15 UTC
EVE history has showed this; its not OP or a problem untill goons do it, anyone remember POS bowling? What about junk shotting a **** cage? Not considered an issue untill goons.

That being said, if goons took it and ran, ccp would nerf the hell out of slowcats.



Also; QWERTY!!!
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#174 - 2014-01-10 18:35:20 UTC
The army of NPC alts clearly knows how to beat every nullsec coalition out there!
Geeeee, I wonder why they don't hold SOV!

OH I KNOW, they could beat everyone so easily, it would just bore them and so they leave it for the others who are just terrible at this game! I have figured it out! :D

*wiggles her boobees*

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#175 - 2014-01-10 18:36:47 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Grath Telkin wrote:


Also the Mega thing is way off, but nice try, you killed sentry carriers with only 1k Megas, everything worked fine.




There were not even 50 carriers in that fight and nowhere near 1k megathons. We have never fielded that many megathrons

We are fighting them in the 300 to 400 mark and its growing. There has never been this many carriers used in a war.

As for your challange, sure, lets put 300 of our carriers in range of the largest titan/super fleet in EVE. I'm sure that will go well.
DRGaius Baltar
Perkone
Caldari State
#176 - 2014-01-10 18:37:05 UTC  |  Edited by: DRGaius Baltar
baltec1 wrote:
JitaPriceCheckingAlt wrote:


Just one doctrine? None because that's ******* dumb, if you have a competent FC and a not trash composition you'll be fine not that I'm going to tell you because I'm not going to teach you how to not be terrible.

Beating a capital fleet with purely sub-capitals though? You keep crying for balance, yet you want the one Capital fleet that can fight on equal footing with Sub Caps and survive nerfed essentially regulating all game balance to sub cap warfare because after that not many people with use Capitals (This includes dreads).

The current balance is fine, subcaps can beat capitals if they use the right compositions and capitals can survive mass amounts of subcaps again if they use the right composition and fitting.


Again when pushed the defenders have no answers.

So let me tell you. In order to kill an archon we would need 1600 megathrons. When we add in all of the support that goes with that fleet we get a force of over 2000 pilots needed and even then, victory is unlikely as the carriers will soon kill enough megathrons that their firepower is not enough to break their tanks or the node will simply die. We could revive the old alpha maelstroms but again, while we may take a few carriers down they will be killing us far more quickly and we would soon lack the needed numbers or the node would simply die.

So, name me the organisations with the ability the field these numbers and keep them reinforced as they lose huge numbers.


With exception to "SMA" are you tell us you can't find those numbers from that lot below......

[url]http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Goonswarm_Federation[/url]

[url]http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Fidelas_Constans[/url]

[url]http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Get_Off_My_Lawn[/url]

[url]http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/SpaceMonkey's_Alliance[/url]
Victor Dathar
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#177 - 2014-01-10 18:41:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Victor Dathar
What you want us to know how to count now?

Edit: Also yes we are BoB

^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7

@grr_goons : Wisdom, Insight, GBS Posts
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#178 - 2014-01-10 18:41:56 UTC
DRGaius Baltar wrote:


With exception to "SMA" are you tell us you can't find those numbers from that lot below








In the largest battle ever had in EVE we managed around 900 mega with other support ships and capitals bulging our forces to just over 2000. The fight also took part on the jita supernode.

Not even the CFC can sustain those numbers and the nodes will not take this kind of fight.
Victor Dathar
Lowlife.
Snuffed Out
#179 - 2014-01-10 18:43:10 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
DRGaius Baltar wrote:


With exception to "SMA" are you tell us you can't find those numbers from that lot below








In the largest battle ever had in EVE we managed around 900 mega with other support ships and capitals bulging our forces to just over 2000. The fight also took part on the jita supernode.

Not even the CFC can sustain those numbers and the nodes will not take this kind of fight.


That sounds like an excuse me, clearly if you can't win without blobbing more than the game can take then you should quit and go play pretty pony princess online and leave eve to the elite pvpers.

^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7

@grr_goons : Wisdom, Insight, GBS Posts
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#180 - 2014-01-10 18:43:27 UTC
Quote:
But a single person being able to guide 250 people around a grid or make 250 people warp at the same time is somehow ok right?


Talk about missing the point, Grath. Those two things are whole orders of magnitude in difference.

One is keeping your fleet coherent to actually get to the fight.

The other is being able to project full dps without actually playing the game to do it.

Which is quite frankly indefensible, and it reflects poorly on you to try.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.