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Looking for a Starkmanir

Author
Erin Savonarola
Doomheim
#21 - 2014-01-09 02:55:55 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
"Captured during the rebellion" ... hmm let's see, that started 135 years ago. So we're looking at least six or seven generations, and that's assuming an average of 20 when they had kids. Since you're talking about a "pedigree line" that was probably made to have kids even earier, then yes your little "pet" could easily be 8th generation and their kids 9th.

Also ... I'm surprised that anyone outside of the Ammatar Mandate would have any Starkmanir on their staff. And because of that I'm also pretty sure that whoever their original holder was they'd want them back.

And also considering that the Starkmanir were one of the 1st tribes conquered, and we're talking over 400 years ago here, the question of their generation really comes into question.

Simply put, finding a Stakmanir slave in the Republic or Mandate is pretty long odds, unless they committed some sort of crime that got them thrown back into the slave pool.

Not to mention the Empire's official policy toward the Stakmanir was, last I checked, still ... a bit negative.

So yes, my question still stands. How the heck did you manage to find a legally owned Starkmanir inside the Empire?


Firstly, calling any servant of mine, or anyone really, a pet is rude and uncouth.
Secondly, I see that I need to correct some misconceptions here, since you are not likely familiar with the ins and outs of Imperial law with regards to slavery.
Point A: The Empress's decree was a one time deal. Any slave ninth generation or above at the time of the decree was freed, a long with the other special categories. The generation is measured from the most recently enslaved ancestor. So, someone with a mother whose family dates back to the original Reclamation and a father who was a first generation is not freed. A child born to an eight generation slave after the decree is still a slave.
So, all that matters for Heilge is the Starkmanir man enslaved in the rebellion. Which puts her at sixth generation, actually.
Point B: House Ardishapur's destruction of Starkman Prime and the Starkmanir was not binding Empire wide. The only person that has the ability to make such a decree is the Emperor. And Emperor Heideran never sentenced the Starkmanir, en total, to death. While it is true that most of the Starkmanir were on Starkman Prime when it was bombarded, not all were. Indeed, Minmatar of all types were scattered about the Empire, the Starkmanir included.
There is no official Imperial policy towards the Starkmanir. Again, not even a Heir has that ability. Were an Ardishapur ever to sit on the Golden Throne that might change, but, God Willing, that will not happen soon.
Point C: Finding a Starkmanir was easy, comparatively speaking. I've still not been able to acquire a former holder. Former nobility, yes; holder, no. Just be a wealthy holder and doors open.
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#22 - 2014-01-09 02:59:53 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
"Captured during the rebellion" ... hmm let's see, that started 135 years ago. So we're looking at least six or seven generations, and that's assuming an average of 20 when they had kids. Since you're talking about a "pedigree line" that was probably made to have kids even earier, then yes your little "pet" could easily be 8th generation and their kids 9th.

Also ... I'm surprised that anyone outside of the Ammatar Mandate would have any Starkmanir on their staff. And because of that I'm also pretty sure that whoever their original holder was they'd want them back.

And also considering that the Starkmanir were one of the 1st tribes conquered, and we're talking over 400 years ago here, the question of their generation really comes into question.

Simply put, finding a Stakmanir slave in the Republic or Mandate is pretty long odds, unless they committed some sort of crime that got them thrown back into the slave pool.

Not to mention the Empire's official policy toward the Stakmanir was, last I checked, still ... a bit negative.

So yes, my question still stands. How the heck did you manage to find a legally owned Starkmanir inside the Empire?


They exist... but not many. I don't think it's as much Imperial feelings towards them (they haven't precisely come out to lead the good fight against us and my dealings with them have been fairly positive), but the other reasons you mentioned. Slaves are much more rare these days to have been taken during a conquest as most should have been freed upon the emancipation order. Most are there as a result of crime or falling out of society (i.e. they went into debt and couldn't pay the loan back), but that doesn't normally include pureblooded Starkminar.

Given that, there are a rare few in bondage legally through a process called voluntary indenture. Essentially, a lot of Matari decided they didn't want to leave their bondage for one reason or another, so they signed a legal document of their own volition voluntary giving up their freedom. It is extremely rare to find both a Starkminar that underwent this process as well as a Starkminar that has an established pedigree and will admit his heritage. Even though the usual Imperial reaction is a shrug at the mention of the Starkminar, there are elements within the Empire that do take that aforementioned dim view of their tribe's survival.

Since the Privy Council does keep a lazy eye on this place, I'd assume the points you just raised in relation to the legality of the servant's bondage will likely be checked out within the month. The Council checks the DNA of the slave in question and compares it to the records they keep themselves on parentage and genealogy. Then they check that data against the legal documentation on that particular slave. I'd like to think Lady Erin wouldn't be foolish enough to advertise that she owned a servant with doctored papers. The Privy Council takes the emancipation orders very seriously. I'll assume she has proper paperwork unless proven otherwise.

Remember that, though the twenties is a good time to start breeding in the Republic, even among slaves that age is sufficiently later in the Empire. My grandmother was born a slave and is 178 years old. I'm 35. You can do the math on that and wonder how old she was when my father was born, then how old he was when I was born. A few of my colleagues from the Republic call our specialization "Methuselah medicine" as we're past masters at keeping people alive and their parts functional for a very long time. Slaves don't live nearly so long, usually, but can expect a very long lifespan compared to their contemporaries elsewhere (the exceptions being the more dangerous and menial jobs like mines, sewer cleanup, and the like). It's just not very expensive to live to two-hundred here, so most slaves who are more than just a set of arms and/or legs are at least treated in that regard.

Which brings me to Lyn's question...

Lyn Farel wrote:

Would I be a slave, I am not really sure if I would appreciate to be treated like a pet animal with pedigrees for intercourse eugenics... I understand that lady Phanca might have considered her pet furrier of the highest pedigree and more worthy that most people, but...

Please forgive me if that sounds silly...


That's not silly, but slavery always has its difficulties. On the one hand, if you're a rare, high-pedigree slave, you can expect your work to not be so hard. You'll probably be educated as a personal assistant or trained as a light entertainer like a musician. You'll probably be well taken care of, pampered even. At the very worst, you'll live exceptionally well compared to your "common" cousins.

Then again, given that pedigree, you're also much less likely to be set free. After someone has spent such a long time with a servant of that caliber, you'd probably find it difficult to convince the owner to set you free until they die. Sometimes, Holders can live four- or five-hundred years. You'd probably wish you were in on the tail end. You're probably also more likely to encounter the degrading behavior you mentioned in that capacity. Treated like a pet more than a student...

Regardless, the point is that you'd probably rather that position than an unruly slave that gets sent to an asteroid mine or works a sorting deck. As far as being a slave goes, it's not terrible to be desired as a servant.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#23 - 2014-01-09 21:31:09 UTC
Oh right... It seems that I made a fool of myself. I did not think of pedigree in its human definition...
Erin Savonarola
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-01-10 10:14:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Erin Savonarola
Based on an exchange that I had tonight with an interested party, I don't think that I've made myself completely clear.
I will in no way condone or make use of extralegal means to obtain the aforementioned male Starkmanir. If the details of the exchange would not pass muster at Stermwinner's, then I am not interested. (Stermwinners's is one of the more exclusive action houses in Dam-Torsad that specializes in rare slaves.) Furthermore, the topic constitutes my advertisement. If someone is able fulfill my order, then I can be reached by any of the usual means. I am not going to try and navigate a labyrinth of smoke filled, back room meetings with cutouts and third parties. Quite simply, if one is not willing to post here, openly and notoriously, the generalities of the exchange (obviously, certain details will remain a business secret) then I am not interested.
When I said that Heilge had the same set of anti aging treatments and implants that I did, I meant it. Her ova was harvested when she was twelve and put in cryostasis. I am in no rush. If it takes a decade or so to find what I am looking for, then that is what it takes.
Lastly, for anyone considering a voluntary indenture, like the good bishop spoke of, I would be willing to time limit the enslavement to a century.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#25 - 2014-01-10 13:34:57 UTC  |  Edited by: N'maro Makari
Erin Savonarola wrote:
I am not going to try and navigate a labyrinth of smoke filled, back room meetings with cutouts and third parties. Quite simply, if one is not willing to post here, openly and notoriously, the generalities of the exchange (obviously, certain details will remain a business secret) then I am not interested.


Perhaps you should consider that other Holders don't wish to be so brazen and public with the trading of what is, by definition, a breeding slave. Perhaps private correspondence might be better for you.

EDIT: Also regarding a point raised by Ms Luftschrek, I am no legal scholar, but the legal issue is probably more to do with the legacy of Dochuta Karsoth than Ardishapur or Heideran, though they certainly play into it. It seems to be a lot of decrees that have not been been rescinded.

**Vherokior **

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#26 - 2014-01-10 14:46:56 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:
Erin Savonarola wrote:
I am not going to try and navigate a labyrinth of smoke filled, back room meetings with cutouts and third parties. Quite simply, if one is not willing to post here, openly and notoriously, the generalities of the exchange (obviously, certain details will remain a business secret) then I am not interested.


Perhaps you should consider that other Holders don't wish to be so brazen and public with the trading of what is, by definition, a breeding slave. Perhaps private correspondence might be better for you.

EDIT: Also regarding a point raised by Ms Luftschrek, I am no legal scholar, but the legal issue is probably more to do with the legacy of Dochuta Karsoth than Ardishapur or Heideran, though they certainly play into it. It seems to be a lot of decrees that have not been been rescinded.


To be fair, it isn't illegal or (at least in Lady Erin's circle) a bad thing to manage slave bloodlines. However, backroom dealings in the Empire are dangerous these days. It used to be that falsifying records and exaggerating claims of lineage was a relatively harmless affair. These days, defying the more strict modern regulations on slavery can get you executed and your house harshly punished. You're better off doing things above board anymore, if you're going to. The authorities are rewarded based on how many questionable slave records they find and are further rewarded for each one that is objectively found to have been intentionally hidden from the emancipation order.

It's made slave traders more paranoid, as they should be. That emancipation order was put in place for a good reason.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#27 - 2014-01-10 16:05:27 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:
Erin Savonarola wrote:
I am not going to try and navigate a labyrinth of smoke filled, back room meetings with cutouts and third parties. Quite simply, if one is not willing to post here, openly and notoriously, the generalities of the exchange (obviously, certain details will remain a business secret) then I am not interested.


Perhaps you should consider that other Holders don't wish to be so brazen and public with the trading of what is, by definition, a breeding slave. Perhaps private correspondence might be better for you.

EDIT: Also regarding a point raised by Ms Luftschrek, I am no legal scholar, but the legal issue is probably more to do with the legacy of Dochuta Karsoth than Ardishapur or Heideran, though they certainly play into it. It seems to be a lot of decrees that have not been been rescinded.


To be fair, it isn't illegal or (at least in Lady Erin's circle) a bad thing to manage slave bloodlines. However, backroom dealings in the Empire are dangerous these days. It used to be that falsifying records and exaggerating claims of lineage was a relatively harmless affair. These days, defying the more strict modern regulations on slavery can get you executed and your house harshly punished. You're better off doing things above board anymore, if you're going to. The authorities are rewarded based on how many questionable slave records they find and are further rewarded for each one that is objectively found to have been intentionally hidden from the emancipation order.

It's made slave traders more paranoid, as they should be. That emancipation order was put in place for a good reason.


I think you misunderstand me. I'm suggesting that the reason why Ms Savonarola is getting unsavory offers from unsavory people is because she's advertising here of all places rather than making and using connections in a more private manner that have a clean legal bill.

The is is the IGS after all. What is to be expected?

**Vherokior **

Erin Savonarola
Doomheim
#28 - 2014-01-10 19:42:55 UTC
I see that my intent was missed in text, pity. I am not mandating that details be posted here. Simply that they be of such a nature that being posted here would not cause embarrassment to either party. Another way of putting it would be the rule of thumb with my behavior as a little girl: 'if you would not do it in front of your mother, then don't do it.'
If you look at the original post, I singled out two groups, 24th Imperial Crusade capsuleers and Starkmanir living in the Republic. I did that for a reason: they are the two groups that I do not already have connections with. The former because it's such a large group; the second should be self obvious. It was not an advertisement to every rustler, cut throat, murderer, bounty hunter, desperado, mug, pug, thug, nitwit, halfwit, dimwit, viper, sniper, con man, Guristas agent, Serpentis bandit, mugger, buggerer, bushwhacker, hornswoggler, ship thief, bull dyke, transport robber, bank robber, or Salvationist!

Also, Mr. Makari, you used the term breeder slave. I do not think it means what you think it means.
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