These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
dilly nay
State War Academy
Caldari State
#141 - 2014-01-10 04:08:31 UTC  |  Edited by: dilly nay
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
dilly nay wrote:
Op fails to realize

Your entire post is invalidated by the fact that nowhere does he say that highsec should be removed.


Diamond Zerg wrote:

My prediction: Suddenly EVE becomes much more fun, and a better game in general...

...PvE focused gamers would have to consider how other players affect their gameplay.


The word "remove" was never used so technically you are right but it's about half of a ghost of a point.
Heshee
Doomheim
#142 - 2014-01-10 04:10:30 UTC
Jax Zaden wrote:
Diamond Zerg wrote:


Due to the rapid deflation of the market, low and nullsec players find it much easier to use ingame methods to make ISK
(as their main competition, the botting/multiboxing afk/semi afk hisec players' advantage has been nullified.)



I'm curious how you think deflation would happen - making hisec less safe would result in reduced volume of things like minerals. Since most pvp people say that hate mining (so they wouldn't mine), that would mean that demand would increase (more losses from less safe hisec), supply would decrease (less yield/hour from less safe hisec) meaning prices would go up across the board.

Overall, this is just one aspect of your mistaken bad idea.


Prices go up across the board every time CCP adds another risk-free isk faucet to highsec, too.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#143 - 2014-01-10 04:11:00 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
I really isn't particularly controversial, unless you're a forums alt who stirs up **** without basis for disagreement, that highsec PVE-only players contribute nothing to the game except their continuous injection of ISK into the economy, causing inflation. They don't produce content. They just leach off what the game provides. About the only positive thing that can be said is that they still pay a sub fee (or buy PLEX which is basically the same).

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kiryen O'Bannon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#144 - 2014-01-10 04:11:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiryen O'Bannon
EI Digin wrote:
Your playstyle is still valid. It just shouldn't be as rewarding as it is, because it's causing detrimental effects to the way other people enjoy the game. And a rebalance of this will not destroy your playstyle. The rocks will still be out there. You can still shoot the red crosses.


Wrong.

It's irrelevant that it's causing unspecified "detrimental effects" (it isn't, but that's neither here nor there) to other people's playstyles. Lots of people's playstyles consist of nothing but causing detrimental effects to others.

At best you could make a case that low/nullsec PVE rewards need to be buffed. Highsec rewards do not need a nerf, especially not because they cause "detrimental effects" (i.e. butthurt) to certain playstyles. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, ISK is presently leaving the economy faster than it enters. Significant nerf to faucets would cause deflationary issues.
Quote:

It really isn't particularly controversial, unless you're a forums alt who stirs up **** without basis for disagreement, that highsec PVE-only players contribute nothing to the game except their continuous injection of ISK into the economy, causing inflation. They don't produce content. They just leach off what the game provides. About the only positive thing that can be said is that they still pay a sub fee.


Except that they aren't causing inflation; they're preventing deflation. You pretty much proved yourself wrong as soon as you said "still pay a sub fee" anyhow. The fact that they do means that they automatically don't "leech" off of anything. There is no obligation to anyone to "provide content"... except that they even do that; they provide content to mission thieves and gankers of various sorts.

Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
Pipa Porto
#145 - 2014-01-10 04:27:32 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Yet, most highsec players are not grinding for infinite isk. But just for one reason or another not interested in the other area's of space in a serious way at this point in time.


[Citation Needed]

I know plenty of people who make their ISK on HS alts of various sorts because doing so is strictly better than trying to make money where they prefer to live.

HS L4s pay almost as much as nullsec anoms with no risk no matter how few hands you have free to run your ship. Incursions pay more, but you start running some risk when the number of available hands drops below one (still far lower risk than anoms, of course).
Industry essentially always occurs in HS, as there's no reason to do it elsewhere unless mechanics specifically prohibit it (Caps, Supers, Reactions).


Captain Tardbar wrote:
Think about it. EVE is a niche product and is one of the most unforgiving hardcore games out there.


[Citation Needed]

This claim comes up all the time. All the while EVE has been hopping between the second and fourth highest subscription MMO worldwide.
The subscription MMOs that I can find that have higher sub numbers than EVE are:
WOW (~8 million)
FF14 (~1.5 million, but was released in August, so it's a pretty safe bet that'll end up falling shortly)

And... that's it. If you can show a bunch more that have higher sub numbers to show that EVE is in some small "niche," be my guest.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#146 - 2014-01-10 04:28:50 UTC  |  Edited by: EI Digin
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:
EI Digin wrote:
Your playstyle is still valid. It just shouldn't be as rewarding as it is, because it's causing detrimental effects to the way other people enjoy the game. And a rebalance of this will not destroy your playstyle. The rocks will still be out there. You can still shoot the red crosses.


Wrong.

It's irrelevant that it's causing unspecified "detrimental effects" (it isn't, but that's neither here nor there) to other people's playstyles. Lots of people's playstyles consist of nothing but causing detrimental effects to others.
You may think of detrimental effects as minor level events like ship loss.

I'm talking about detrimental effects such as newer PvP-oriented players quitting the game en masse (as cited by previous posters from CSM minutes) because there's no way to live a sustainable life.

There's a fair bit of difference.

Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:

At best you could make a case that low/nullsec PVE rewards need to be buffed. Highsec rewards do not need a nerf, especially not because they cause "detrimental effects" (i.e. butthurt) to certain playstyles. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, ISK is presently leaving the economy faster than it enters. Significant nerf to faucets would cause deflationary issues.
Buffing everything but highsec has the same effect as nerfing highsec. If you take the crown off of the head of highsec and make it perhaps not the best place to live in, you've effectively made it worse off. You have to understand, this game has many different gears and cogs, modifying one is going to change the entire game. There are no completely self-contained bubbles in this game, which many people who live in highsec and prefer PvE choose to believe.

If you can add new faucets without disrupting the economy, fine by me. But if new sinks are to be added because of the necessary improvements to make PvP viable, don't make life more difficult for people who are already having trouble.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#147 - 2014-01-10 04:40:11 UTC
Heshee wrote:


Prices go up across the board every time CCP adds another risk-free isk faucet to highsec, too.

Except CCP's last market analysis indicates there is no inflation happening, and the average isk/player has actually dropped slightly. Prices are going up because mineral requirements were changed significantly due to tiericide, and mineral supply was changed with the changes to loot & drone poo removal.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#148 - 2014-01-10 04:47:13 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
My prediction: Suddenly EVE becomes much more fun, and a better game in general.


It would be more fun for the people who already play then game, who can use their knowledge and in-game assets to bully new players, to the point where they just quit the game because they never got a chance.

The problem with hi-sec is that there is no reason to leave, moving to null is like living in a third world country compared to hi-sec, and low-sec is not much better. If you don't care about space politics, and think fleet battles is a boring lag fest, then you have absolutely no reason to leave hi-sec.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#149 - 2014-01-10 04:54:09 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
...
Bots are no longer worthwhile as they make easy targets for PvPers.
The EVE economy becomes dominated by intelligent humans, not machines or "bot aspirant" grinders....



The biggest fleets of bots i've ever seen were in null. The total lack of so-called bot hunters there points to the disingenous nature of the pinheads who want to hit non-combat ships in hisec.
Mining and belt ratting bots are and will be safe from your terrible ideas. All of them.



Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
dilly nay
State War Academy
Caldari State
#150 - 2014-01-10 05:10:06 UTC
Because treating a video game market similar to the world market and using terminology such as "inflation" to describe an isk pool which was larger today than is was yesterday is relevant.

How exactly do you "inflate" the value of a currency which is not the result of a loan? You must assume that higher prices = inflation?

There is no link between isk grinding and higher market prices.

Your logic would serve you better by stating Pvp and its vast reservoir of ship loss is a source for higher demand or "inflation". lol
Pipa Porto
#151 - 2014-01-10 05:46:49 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Diamond Zerg wrote:
...
Bots are no longer worthwhile as they make easy targets for PvPers.
The EVE economy becomes dominated by intelligent humans, not machines or "bot aspirant" grinders....



The biggest fleets of bots i've ever seen were in null. The total lack of so-called bot hunters there points to the disingenous nature of the pinheads who want to hit non-combat ships in hisec.
Mining and belt ratting bots are and will be safe from your terrible ideas. All of them.



http://evenews24.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/01.jpg

The top 9 regions for botting are in HS. They account for 79% of botting according to CCP.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#152 - 2014-01-10 06:23:01 UTC
dilly nay wrote:
Because treating a video game market similar to the world market and using terminology such as "inflation" to describe an isk pool which was larger today than is was yesterday is relevant.

CCP hired a Ph.D economist several years ago for the express purpose of analyzing EVE economics. He's still there.
I'd say it's relevant.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#153 - 2014-01-10 07:06:01 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
dilly nay wrote:
Because treating a video game market similar to the world market and using terminology such as "inflation" to describe an isk pool which was larger today than is was yesterday is relevant.

CCP hired a Ph.D economist several years ago for the express purpose of analyzing EVE economics. He's still there.
I'd say it's relevant.

And said economist made comments in latest CSM minutes. Well worth reading since they disprove any kind of 'inflation' theory anyway.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#154 - 2014-01-10 07:29:27 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
And said economist made comments in latest CSM minutes. Well worth reading since they disprove any kind of 'inflation' theory anyway.

The fact that there isn't inflation right now does not “disprove” the theory. In fact, it rather highlights the reason why it is a valid and relevant way of tracking the economy.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#155 - 2014-01-10 07:51:24 UTC
Oh sure. I was meaning those comments are relevant to the whole isk faucets are causing inflation arguments people like to spout off about. When the latest comments he made actually show the average player has less isk, not more.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#156 - 2014-01-10 08:12:08 UTC
Chopper Rollins wrote:
Diamond Zerg wrote:
...
Bots are no longer worthwhile as they make easy targets for PvPers.
The EVE economy becomes dominated by intelligent humans, not machines or "bot aspirant" grinders....



The biggest fleets of bots i've ever seen were in null. The total lack of so-called bot hunters there points to the disingenous nature of the pinheads who want to hit non-combat ships in hisec.
Mining and belt ratting bots are and will be safe from your terrible ideas. All of them.





Bots all but abandoned null years ago. They make more isk in far greater safety in high sec.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#157 - 2014-01-10 08:13:05 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:


...Solo and small gang pvp can now be found in abundance as there are targets and organisations of varying sizes everywhere...

Lol Yes, that is exactly what your find in 'null'!
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#158 - 2014-01-10 08:14:46 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Oh sure. I was meaning those comments are relevant to the whole isk faucets are causing inflation arguments people like to spout off about. When the latest comments he made actually show the average player has less isk, not more.


CCP fixed the runaway isk inflation some time ago.
Pipa Porto
#159 - 2014-01-10 08:21:20 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Oh sure. I was meaning those comments are relevant to the whole isk faucets are causing inflation arguments people like to spout off about. When the latest comments he made actually show the average player has less isk, not more.


ISK Faucets provide inflationary pressure.
ISK Sinks provide deflationary pressure.

That the balance is currently where CCP wants it (mild inflation) does not change the fact that ISK faucets are a prime source of inflationary pressure.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Josef Djugashvilis
#160 - 2014-01-10 08:22:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I really isn't particularly controversial, unless you're a forums alt who stirs up **** without basis for disagreement, that highsec PVE-only players contribute nothing to the game except their continuous injection of ISK into the economy, causing inflation. They don't produce content. They just leach off what the game provides. About the only positive thing that can be said is that they still pay a sub fee (or buy PLEX which is basically the same).


You need to eat less spinach dear chap.

Having said that, I believe null-sec hard-man style players are vitally important to the game, they give many of us something to laugh at.

This is not a signature.