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Mobile Scan Inhibitors

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Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#21 - 2014-01-08 19:52:37 UTC
It is a smokescreen, not a cammoflauge net. I believe it only has a two hour duration so if you see one it should be of interest. I rather like this addition and see lots of applications for both hunters and prey. As always we will live or die through the efforts ofour scouts.

It has a secondary effect on the meta which makes scouts with expanded probe launchers more useful relative to ones such as the asteros that only have core probe launchers.
HTC NecoSino
Suddenly Carebears
#22 - 2014-01-08 20:34:12 UTC
Fight for this change guys: People inside the MSI can not see OUTSIDE the MSI, just like people outside cannot see in
(On D-scan, this is)
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-01-08 21:51:10 UTC
The only thing this changes is i need to add it to my scanning overview.
That said I think it's a pointless addition that only adds tedium. Now, if it ALSO removed pilots in range from local.... THEN we'd be talking!

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Bronya Boga
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2014-01-08 22:10:24 UTC
Red Garsk wrote:
Ilaister wrote:


Depending on how Fozzie clarifies, it may make sleeper farmers safer - we don't know if it obscures cosmic sigs aswell as ships - but I see limited use for it in w-space.


Yeah like the dude has any idea what he is talking about... Like I said, it makes it easier for others, not for the guy running sleepers.

CCP needs to stop acting like they know with those ridiculous statements.


You would be surprised but fozzie plays the game and sigs exist in all of eve im sure he knows more then you about this game but you cant blame a guy for overlooking some things. If it hides sigs and itself then we might have a problem of extremely safe farming where the person running the site has vision while the hunter does not. On the other hand if it remains as it is proposwd it becomes a useless mechanic.
Red Garsk
#25 - 2014-01-08 22:19:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Red Garsk
Bronya Boga wrote:
Red Garsk wrote:
Ilaister wrote:


Depending on how Fozzie clarifies, it may make sleeper farmers safer - we don't know if it obscures cosmic sigs aswell as ships - but I see limited use for it in w-space.


Yeah like the dude has any idea what he is talking about... Like I said, it makes it easier for others, not for the guy running sleepers.

CCP needs to stop acting like they know with those ridiculous statements.


You would be surprised but fozzie plays the game and sigs exist in all of eve im sure he knows more then you about this game but you cant blame a guy for overlooking some things. If it hides sigs and itself then we might have a problem of extremely safe farming where the person running the site has vision while the hunter does not. On the other hand if it remains as it is proposwd it becomes a useless mechanic.


Good point, however, the deployable has a lifecycle of 2 hours, you can not pick it up again and you blow through sites in 10 to 15 minutes, maybe a bit more for the higher class WH's... But not 2 hours... So unless you can pick it up and bring it to the next site, it's completely useless... Where does this deployable make it saver for the site runner ?

It actually makes you more of a target because you need to bring 1 for each site you run, thus, making you even more visible on Dscan, plus, Wrecks in combat sites span anywhere within a 100+ Km range so you'll have to combine it with a mobile tractor unit, which in turn is re-usable. It just doesn't make sense.
Bronya Boga
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2014-01-08 22:55:14 UTC
Red Garsk wrote:
Bronya Boga wrote:
Red Garsk wrote:
Ilaister wrote:


Depending on how Fozzie clarifies, it may make sleeper farmers safer - we don't know if it obscures cosmic sigs aswell as ships - but I see limited use for it in w-space.


Yeah like the dude has any idea what he is talking about... Like I said, it makes it easier for others, not for the guy running sleepers.

CCP needs to stop acting like they know with those ridiculous statements.


You would be surprised but fozzie plays the game and sigs exist in all of eve im sure he knows more then you about this game but you cant blame a guy for overlooking some things. If it hides sigs and itself then we might have a problem of extremely safe farming where the person running the site has vision while the hunter does not. On the other hand if it remains as it is proposwd it becomes a useless mechanic.


Good point, however, the deployable has a lifecycle of 2 hours, you can not pick it up again and you blow through sites in 10 to 15 minutes, maybe a bit more for the higher class WH's... But not 2 hours... So unless you can pick it up and bring it to the next site, it's completely useless... Where does this deployable make it saver for the site runner ?

It actually makes you more of a target because you need to bring 1 for each site you run, thus, making you even more visible on Dscan, plus, Wrecks in combat sites span anywhere within a 100+ Km range so you'll have to combine it with a mobile tractor unit, which in turn is re-usable. It just doesn't make sense.


Then the only logical conclusion is that its useless or was not meant to be used in those conditions
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2014-01-09 00:01:27 UTC
HTC NecoSino wrote:
Fight for this change guys: People inside the MSI can not see OUTSIDE the MSI, just like people outside cannot see in
(On D-scan, this is)


Nah, all this does it make it only make the structure useful for fleets an inaccessible for solo or small gang operators.

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HTC NecoSino
Suddenly Carebears
#28 - 2014-01-09 00:41:32 UTC  |  Edited by: HTC NecoSino
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:
HTC NecoSino wrote:
Fight for this change guys: People inside the MSI can not see OUTSIDE the MSI, just like people outside cannot see in
(On D-scan, this is)


Nah, all this does it make it only make the structure useful for fleets an inaccessible for solo or small gang operators.



Forces that scout to at least have to uncloak and burn away before even knowing what is around. Gives you plenty of time to have a small tackle fleet 500km off warp down to the hole :)

Which, if the scout warps off, then hides your fleet at the hole, too.
Glyndi
Doom Generation
Best Intentions.
#29 - 2014-01-09 02:36:49 UTC
The plus side is that it only has a range of 30km. Any wrecks put outside that range would show up on DSCAN.
Peter Moonlight
Suddenly Carebears
#30 - 2014-01-09 04:49:18 UTC
What a bonus to the fleets bashing POCO's POS'es, i mean most of those ships can also put up a cloak+this thingy they can just F1 cloak, then someone can ever land down there, see nothing is in it, think oh they left time ago and sadly go home, then boom, a fleet decloaks 10 minutes later and continue their bashing.. And it's pretty hard and a task to decloak ship/ships inside a 30km radius, but meh, i think this module was not really needed in-game but maybe with some different effects, who knows.. Btw, i think MMJD structure is such a bad bad bad thing, they are only making the structures and ways for people to escape something or hide from something, or be safer. I believe that in next 2 expansions to jump someone doing sleepers for example, is going to be a task like you are evicting them from wormhole, if they continue in this rhytm..
Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#31 - 2014-01-09 05:21:57 UTC
If it is not shot at by NPCs then I would drop 5 or so before starting to run sites because then a scout has to check each site by warping to it to confirm if we are there or not. Of course they could just combat probe us but that would definitly alert us (assuming we didn't see the new sig pop up anyway). I think it would be a useful stalling technique using these scan inhibitors.

Also the clever and not so clever traps people will think up.
Red Garsk
#32 - 2014-01-09 05:58:39 UTC
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
If it is not shot at by NPCs then I would drop 5 or so before starting to run sites because then a scout has to check each site by warping to it to confirm if we are there or not. Of course they could just combat probe us but that would definitly alert us (assuming we didn't see the new sig pop up anyway). I think it would be a useful stalling technique using these scan inhibitors.

Also the clever and not so clever traps people will think up.


Trust me, we already do this without the use of probes. As soon as you enter a system and see something on Dscan that looks remotely like a site runner we warp to sites just to check them out regardless, nothing really new there...
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#33 - 2014-01-09 09:20:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Chitsa Jason
Kynric wrote:
It is a smokescreen, not a cammoflauge net. I believe it only has a two hour duration so if you see one it should be of interest. I rather like this addition and see lots of applications for both hunters and prey. As always we will live or die through the efforts ofour scouts.

It has a secondary effect on the meta which makes scouts with expanded probe launchers more useful relative to ones such as the asteros that only have core probe launchers.


Best comment so far. When making this thing wormholes have definatelly been taken into consideration so our usual gameplay style is not affected that much. In the end it will add to the meta in some fun ways whovever is smart to use it.

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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#34 - 2014-01-09 10:40:38 UTC
MSI + Bubble + Gridfu + Trap = Hard to execute but awesome. Bear

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Blodhgarm Dethahal
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#35 - 2014-01-09 18:52:24 UTC
Red Garsk wrote:
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:
If it is not shot at by NPCs then I would drop 5 or so before starting to run sites because then a scout has to check each site by warping to it to confirm if we are there or not. Of course they could just combat probe us but that would definitly alert us (assuming we didn't see the new sig pop up anyway). I think it would be a useful stalling technique using these scan inhibitors.

Also the clever and not so clever traps people will think up.


Trust me, we already do this without the use of probes. As soon as you enter a system and see something on Dscan that looks remotely like a site runner we warp to sites just to check them out regardless, nothing really new there...


You actually take your time to warp to each of the sites instead of just DScaning them?
Piwat King
Piwat Explorations Enterprises
#36 - 2014-01-09 21:36:11 UTC
Depending on the cost of the item, I can see these being very useful for hiding small fleets temporarily (2 hours)

Sure you can scan it down, even it it showed up on D-scan it wouldn't matter.

To be effective you'd have to basically play a shell game with them. Drop lots of them in a system any scout has to scan down each one and warp to it.


Also, you can use it to decloak scouts by placing a mobile bubble in it, ( and using cans/ship positioning to decloak them)

there are lots of possibilities for use in WH space.

But does it change WH space as a whole? No. It's just another strategy to be explored and manipulated

This will be absolutely useless for sleeper sites however, as it's 30km range means any wrecks created outside of 30km will show on Dscan and therefore make it very easy to locate which site is being run.

My personal opinion is , it should show on Dscan, BUT it should be very hard to scan down (we're talking near max skills for scanning here and sisters probes and launcher/T2/ implants) But it should also be expensive and deployable and like 2x the cost of a mobile warp disruptor.

So even if you alert the people using it who are running a site, if they leave it behind you can still shoot it and inflict economic penalties on them for leaving thier device behind.

Just a thought
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#37 - 2014-01-09 23:54:47 UTC
Changes made to the original design:

CCP Fozzie wrote:
Ok everyone, here is our first round of changes since the beginning of public feedback. These are some quite large changes but we think the end result is a much stronger design.

(snip MJU changes)

Mobile Scan Inhibitor

Ships inside the area of a MSI's effect will have their own directional scanner and probe results disabled.
We're adding a minimum distance of 75km from wormholes.
We're reducing the sensor strength of the structure to 5 and increasing the signature radius to 500. Go ahead and apply as many projected ECCM to that as you want.
We're increasing the build cost to ~15m isk.
We're decreasing the structure's lifetime in space to 1 hour.
Minimum distance to another MSI is now 100km.
We're increasing the volume of the structure to 100m3.


I'll be updating the OP momentarily.


So...it seems to me that this has become even more useless for carebearing in WHs (unless you have a scout outside of the thing, at which point why do you need the thing in the first place? They'll only be used to hide fleet compositions (probably in conjuction with a bubble to catch scouts trying to get on grid) prior to an imminent fight.

Other than that...what are they good for? I mean, other than luring unsuspecting carebears into using one thinking it makes them safer.
Ori Muvila
State War Academy
Caldari State
#38 - 2014-01-10 06:02:58 UTC
calaretu wrote:
Bring on invisible anom running :(



Not quite, as the unit itself is apparently made easy to scan. Besides if they drop it in an anom, just Dscan which anom it is, and send a cloaky in.
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#39 - 2014-01-10 08:30:14 UTC
Anoms not scanable was a bug, not sure about sigs though. And you want to make the inhibitors hard to scan.
And if someone keeps talking about wrecks outside of the cloaked area, you know there are things called tractorbeams and even deployable tractor units.
Chris Winter
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#40 - 2014-01-10 20:52:49 UTC
Shilalasar wrote:
Anoms not scanable was a bug, not sure about sigs though. And you want to make the inhibitors hard to scan.
And if someone keeps talking about wrecks outside of the cloaked area, you know there are things called tractorbeams and even deployable tractor units.

The inhibitors will be very easy to scan.
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