These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

Forum Index

EVE Forums » EVE Communication Center » EVE General Discussion » Sp CCP, how is that Marauder as a PvP ship concept work...

Topic is locked indefinitely.

First pagePrevious page8910

Sp CCP, how is that Marauder as a PvP ship concept working out? First post First post
Author

Previous Topic Next Topic

baltec1

Bat Country

Pandemic Horde

Likes received: 19,001

#181 - 2014-01-09 19:37:46 UTC

Notorious Fellon wrote:

Plug in Baby wrote:

Tippia wrote:

Thus: successful.

Ok, can't argue with that. I personally feel the NM and RS need some attention, but for anyone who believes them to be fine and balanced the marauders are most certainly fine.

I think the main problem is difference in success criteria:

Some expected them to have a real impact on the PVP scene, which the have not

Others just expected them to just be better than they were before, which they certainly are.

If they haven't impacted the PVP scene, is it possible that it could be related to the fact that doctrines tend to change more often in times *between* major escalated wars or that maybe it is because those are billion ISK ships?

I can think of a few more reasons why they haven't impacted PVP on a large scale.

If it was frigs we were talking about, you might see more impact after a few weeks. It needs more time for any billion ISK hull to impact PVP "globally". Also, wait until the dust settles in Null again. Doctrines change when FC's get bored. On the fly Counter tactics can only be used for ships people already happen to have ready to rock nearby the engagement.

These ships are not made for fleet doctrines.

Notorious Fellon

Likes received: 361

#182 - 2014-01-09 19:39:39 UTC

baltec1 wrote:

Notorious Fellon wrote:

Plug in Baby wrote:

Tippia wrote:

Thus: successful.

These ships are not made for fleet doctrines.

That's a fair assertion, but even with that; more time is needed for any change to such expensive assets to impact PVP on scale.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.

baltec1

Bat Country

Pandemic Horde

Likes received: 19,001

#183 - 2014-01-09 19:52:59 UTC

Notorious Fellon wrote:

That's a fair assertion, but even with that; more time is needed for any change to such expensive assets to impact PVP on scale.

These ships will never be used on a large scale. BS pilots who enjoy going solo or in small gangs are a rare thing, even the venerable vindicator is a somewhat rare sight.

These ships are very good at their job but never expect to see large numbers being used.

Jenn aSide

Soul Machines

The Initiative.

Likes received: 16,192

#184 - 2014-01-09 20:23:36 UTC

Plug in Baby wrote:

Tippia wrote:

Thus: successful.

Ok, can't argue with that. I personally feel the NM and RS need some attention, but for anyone who believes them to be fine and balanced the marauders are most certainly fine.

I don't know many people who believe that. I don't. The point is that CCP wanted to take the ship from "useless in pvp" to "has some kind of niche in pvp".

See here:

CCP Ytterbium wrote:

We also believe that designing them for a very specific activity doesn't fit the emergent nature of EVE, and as such we wish to expand their use to PvP as well. Of course, their high price, low mobility will always ensure their role remains a niche one, but we at least can make that purpose more appealing than a simple "jam me now and forever" target dummy.

That was the goal. They succeeded in that. Dinsdale claims it's a failure because there isn't "widespread" use. CCP never promised that or had that as a goal.

Quote:

I think the main problem is difference in success criteria:

Some expected them to have a real impact on the PVP scene, which the have not

Others just expected them to just be better than they were before, which they certainly are.

See above. if you want Marauders to be even better for pvp, that's a separate issue. But not only did they give the ships some pvp utility, but they made them better across the board and PVE. A solo marauder with dual ASCs and a hold full of navy 400 cap boosters can solo lvl 5 missions and DED 10/10s like Blood Raider Naval Shipyard.

Tippia

Sunshine and Lollipops

Likes received: 27,526

#185 - 2014-01-09 20:32:47 UTC

Jenn aSide wrote:

The point is that CCP wanted to take the ship from "useless in pvp" to "has some kind of niche in pvp".

See here:

CCP Ytterbium wrote:

That was the goal. They succeeded in that. Dinsdale claims it's a failure because there isn't "widespread" use. CCP never promised that or had that as a goal.

Not empty-quoting.

The entire complaint that forms the basis for this thread (in fact, both complaints, although it took a little while for the second to sneakily emerge) hinges on a gross misunderstanding* of what the intent of the marauder buff was.

* I'm being kind here by attributing it to just incompetence… I suspect it's actually something far worse.

E-2C Hawkeye

HOW to PEG SAFETY

Likes received: 706

#186 - 2014-01-09 21:11:38 UTC

Tippia wrote:

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

Tebizla wrote:

He was not complaining in regards to their PvE success.

Like always with JennaTELLya you can use small words and all but you still cannot make him comprehend or understand.

More accurately, Jenn was familiar with Dinsdale's complaint ever since his numerous other threads on the topic, which is why he know that the complaint also was about their PvE success (as Dinsdale's subsequent post showed).

So apparently he understood what was actually being said far better than both you and Tebizia did… like always.

Obviously he was Assuming, and you know what they say about that (makes an ASS out of you and jen) That’s part of the problem with trolls like you and jenn.... no matter how well they try to explain it or dumb it down your both going to troll it until it becomes locked because you don’t like it or disagree with it.

Tippia

Sunshine and Lollipops

Likes received: 27,526

#187 - 2014-01-09 21:22:29 UTC | Edited by: Tippia

E-2C Hawkeye wrote:

Obviously he was

…recalling the other threads Dingbat had made on the topic. You, on the other hand, failed to read the thread and started making assumptions about what had been said by whom and why. The sad part is that could just have read two more posts (not to mention the rest of the thread) before ranting irrelevantly about people whose actual arguments you can never address and not made such a blatantly obvious mistake.

Quote:

That’s part of the problem with trolls like you and jenn

The problem being that we don't troll?

Kagura Nikon

Native Freshfood

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 2,148

#188 - 2014-01-10 09:39:55 UTC

Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

I belonged to a spin-off channel of TDF, and the FC was tough as nails, demanding excellent fits and skills. We rocked just about any fleet that faced us, when we flew 9 Pallies/2 Oni's. That channel is now merely a social channel, with no one running Paladin's, or for that matter, Incursions, anymore.
THAT last fact makes me really bitter.

TDF dieing has no relation to paladins. Its just the ever evolvign nature of elite pushing others away. The more elite focused incursion channels still floursih. I know, because I have alts on ALL of them checking for possible war targets.

"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"

D.O.O.M. 32
Dirk Massive D.O.O.M. Likes received: 32	#189 - 2014-01-10 11:03:16 UTC I seen somebody post a comment on these forums just the other day somewhere here, they attacked a Kronos I think it was, and had to flee from the battle in flames. Their PVP fit Loki couldn't dent the Marauder, and they now have a butt with a serious case of the hurts. Bringing WAR and TERROR to a system near you....