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Sp CCP, how is that Marauder as a PvP ship concept working out?

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Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#141 - 2014-01-09 15:44:23 UTC
Yesterday there was a suspect kronos in madmilire at gate. Took 53 people 40 minutes to kill it. And he killed 7 while that :P

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#142 - 2014-01-09 15:46:33 UTC
no one thought to bring nues?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#143 - 2014-01-09 15:48:46 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
no one thought to bring nues?



He had 2 cap injectors and someone dropped a jet can of 800 charges for him at middle of fight. Also he things he killed were exacltyt he neut ships :P

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
hedge betts Shiyurida
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#144 - 2014-01-09 15:48:54 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Yesterday there was a suspect kronos in madmilire at gate. Took 53 people 40 minutes to kill it. And he killed 7 while that :P


Sweet more customers for my renewed Kronos production line. keep em coming lads

Pog mo thoin

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#145 - 2014-01-09 15:52:04 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
no one thought to bring nues?



He had 2 cap injectors and someone dropped a jet can of 800 charges for him at middle of fight. Also he things he killed were exacltyt he neut ships :P

HAHAHAHA! Thats fantastic. any one fraps it?

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Josef Djugashvilis
#146 - 2014-01-09 15:56:57 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
no one thought to bring nues?


The 'nues' was that the Kronos lost Smile

This is not a signature.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#147 - 2014-01-09 16:02:21 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
no one thought to bring nues?



He had 2 cap injectors and someone dropped a jet can of 800 charges for him at middle of fight. Also he things he killed were exacltyt he neut ships :P

HAHAHAHA! Thats fantastic. any one fraps it?



I was too busy trying to not get blasted by his guns to remember of that ... sorry. Maybe some marmites did.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#148 - 2014-01-09 16:04:40 UTC
pitty,I can't think of a more appropriate place to link something like that.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#149 - 2014-01-09 16:05:32 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Yesterday there was a suspect kronos in madmilire at gate. Took 53 people 40 minutes to kill it. And he killed 7 while that :P


Do you have a km for that?
BTW, I never said that the ship in bastion mode is not stupid strong.
I believe that Rote Kappelle ran a small gang tourney on Sisi with the new Marauders in them, and the consensus was they were insane in that situation.

But my first post still stands, regardless of what percentages that Fozzie posts. (154M damage on what Fozzie? Give us some context.) In the dev blog describing the reasoning for the changes, it was clearly stated the ship class was being re-engineered for PvP. Given that Eve players are very smart, and very early adopters, I simply do not see or read about null sec players, nor low sec players, nor much of anyone, adopting these on a LARGE scale, which to me, indicates a failure in the thrust of the changes.
No doubt there are plenty of isolated examples of these ships being engaged in PvP as an aggressor. But given the speed, agility, and cost of the ship, it simply makes no sense to try to convert this into a PvP ship.

And yes, no doubt, I am very bitter about how these changes impacted my gameplay.
It is not a matter of "adapt or die". I have the skills to fly any subcap well.
I grow tired of constantly having to play "buy a new ship because your old one is obsolete in its role"

Frankly, I wish I had never opened the thread.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#150 - 2014-01-09 16:08:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Yesterday there was a suspect kronos in madmilire at gate. Took 53 people 40 minutes to kill it. And he killed 7 while that :P


Do you have a km for that?
BTW, I never said that the ship in bastion mode is not stupid strong.
I believe that Rote Kappelle ran a small gang tourney on Sisi with the new Marauders in them, and the consensus was they were insane in that situation.

But my first post still stands, regardless of what percentages that Fozzie posts. (154M damage on what Fozzie? Give us some context.) In the dev blog describing the reasoning for the changes, it was clearly stated the ship class was being re-engineered for PvP. Given that Eve players are very smart, and very early adopters, I simply do not see or read about null sec players, nor low sec players, nor much of anyone, adopting these on a LARGE scale, which to me, indicates a failure in the thrust of the changes.
No doubt there are plenty of isolated examples of these ships being engaged in PvP as an aggressor. But given the speed, agility, and cost of the ship, it simply makes no sense to try to convert this into a PvP ship.

And yes, no doubt, I am very bitter about how these changes impacted my gameplay.
It is not a matter of "adapt or die". I have the skills to fly any subcap well.
I grow tired of constantly having to play "buy a new ship because your old one is obsolete in its role"

Frankly, I wish I had never opened the thread.



Cannto link killmails here. But look for this guy : SkyFlyer in your favorit killboard at 21:47. HE managed to jump trough to other system if i am not mitaken and everythign restarted.. so valueds are a bit off.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#151 - 2014-01-09 16:10:57 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
In the dev blog describing the reasoning for the changes, it was clearly stated the ship class was being re-engineered for PvP.
…and as the statistics afterwards show, it worked, without making it any less popular for its original purpose.

Quote:
Frankly, I wish I had never opened the thread.
Well, you live and learn. Next time, try not assuming that everyone is out to get you personally and that every attempt at improving the game is doomed to fail.
Plug in Baby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#152 - 2014-01-09 16:11:02 UTC
ITT: We use anecdotal data to justify poor design.

This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#153 - 2014-01-09 16:14:04 UTC
Plug in Baby wrote:
ITT: We use anecdotal data to justify baselessly proclaim poor design.

Close, but fixed.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#154 - 2014-01-09 16:15:27 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I simply do not see or read about null sec players, nor low sec players, nor much of anyone, adopting these on a LARGE scale, which to me, indicates a failure in the thrust of the changes.


It didn't become an instant fleet doctrine, therefore its a failure? That's an unreasonable standard.

Quote:

No doubt there are plenty of isolated examples of these ships being engaged in PvP as an aggressor. But given the speed, agility, and cost of the ship, it simply makes no sense to try to convert this into a PvP ship.


That's a personal choice. For the price, the ship offers unique abilities that are very powerful in PvP. The use of these ships in PvP is clearly systemic as shown by Fozzie's numbers. The fact that its not been picked up as a fleet doctrine or seen widespread use by the FW cat herders is irrelevant.

Quote:
And yes, no doubt, I am very bitter about how these changes impacted my gameplay.


How exactly did they affect your gameplay? You spoke of their use in armor incursions. Was it because they changed the web bonus for a tracking bonus?

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Plug in Baby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2014-01-09 16:15:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
In the dev blog describing the reasoning for the changes, it was clearly stated the ship class was being re-engineered for PvP.
…and as the statistics afterwards show, it worked, without making it any less popular for its original purpose.


Sorry Tippia, how do the statistics show that at all?

If you read my post it seems the given statistics provide no useful information on the matter, other than PVP use is up.

The fact this whole thread is dedicated to poor statistics showing marauders are slightly better than some completely useless BS (including old marauders) and anecdotes of players soloing in them against idiots in low sec shows just how weak the argument in favour of them being truely viable in PVP is.

This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
Plug in Baby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#156 - 2014-01-09 16:18:08 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Plug in Baby wrote:
ITT: We use anecdotal data to justify baselessly proclaim poor design.

Close, but fixed.


Right.... Thanks.

This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#157 - 2014-01-09 16:20:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ralph King-Griffin
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
In the dev blog describing the reasoning for the changes, it was clearly stated the ship class was being re-engineered for PvP.

dude, seriously

CCP Ytterbium wrote:

We also believe that designing them for a very specific activity doesn't fit the emergent nature of EVE, and as such we wish to expand their use to PvP as well. Of course, their high price, low mobility will always ensure their role remains a niche one, but we at least can make that purpose more appealing than a simple "jam me now and forever" target dummy.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#158 - 2014-01-09 16:20:53 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

But my first post still stands, regardless of what percentages that Fozzie posts. (154M damage on what Fozzie? Give us some context.) In the dev blog describing the reasoning for the changes, it was clearly stated the ship class was being re-engineered for PvP.


They never said it liek that. They said they were moving away from the "pve only" balance concept for marauders, which makes sense in a game that so highly features PvP.


Quote:
Given that Eve players are very smart, and very early adopters, I simply do not see or read about null sec players, nor low sec players, nor much of anyone, adopting these on a LARGE scale, which to me, indicates a failure in the thrust of the changes.


CCP never claimed that were making Marauders into "FLEET" ships, just rebalancing them to be more than just pve ships. How can they fail to do something they never claimed to be doing in the 1st place?

Quote:

No doubt there are plenty of isolated examples of these ships being engaged in PvP as an aggressor. But given the speed, agility, and cost of the ship, it simply makes no sense to try to convert this into a PvP ship.

And yes, no doubt, I am very bitter about how these changes impacted my gameplay.
It is not a matter of "adapt or die". I have the skills to fly any subcap well.
I grow tired of constantly having to play "buy a new ship because your old one is obsolete in its role"


This is the important part, because such changes are a BIG part of EVE online. They never promise you that things won't change.Hell, when they changed the agents, i had to move from Gicodel to freaking Osmon (Caldari space, blasphemy).

You're bitter that they made what they (and I) feel were necessary changes to a ship class that you used in Armor incursions. A ship class that is now hands down better at other types of PVE (like missions and anomalies) as well has having more utility in solo and small gang pvp..

As selfish as that is, well that's your right but what is supremely annoying is that until now you couldn't just SAY that. No, it was CCP cowtowig to the null sec cartels, trying to screw YOU personally etc etc. That's why the things you say gain zero traction with CCP. Annoying people who develop entertainment software you pay for isn't very smart.

Quote:

Frankly, I wish I had never opened the thread.


See , we can agree on something. But more seriously, take some time to at least try to understand why every thread you open or post to turns into, well, this. Dial back on the crazy and we can actually have a conversation about stuff and things.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#159 - 2014-01-09 16:25:07 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
In the dev blog describing the reasoning for the changes, it was clearly stated the ship class was being re-engineered for PvP.

dude, seriously

CCP Ytterbium wrote:

We also believe that designing them for a very specific activity doesn't fit the emergent nature of EVE, and as such we wish to expand their use to PvP as well. Of course, their high price, low mobility will always ensure their role remains a niche one, but we at least can make that purpose more appealing than a simple "jam me now and forever" target dummy.



How dare you bring facts into it lol. Well said sir, you are a credit to both kings and Griffins everywhere. Big smile

This illustrates perfectly why Disndale's opinion was completely unjustified. He said
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I simply do not see or read about null sec players, nor low sec players, nor much of anyone, adopting these on a LARGE scale, which to me, indicates a failure in the thrust of the changes.
but CCP was never going for that in the 1st place.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#160 - 2014-01-09 16:27:55 UTC
How many here complaining went on and killed a marauder solo to claim that they are NOT stronger in PVP now? I know that I tried.. and decided that is a stupid thing to try without at least 3 ships.

Beign strong can go into several directions. ITs a damm sturdy ship, that a pity do not have extended damage capabilities.

Wish ccp have given it 15% more damage in bastion and given the bastion mode a CORRRECT falloff bonus of 2x range bonus.. But.. its better than nothing.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"