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Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
#41 - 2014-01-08 15:51:26 UTC
Ugljesa wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:
You can always shoot it...

As I understand shooting takes a lot of time. Especially in high sec.


Neh, 6-8 hours and mine was down by 6-8 guys in 0.5.
Stupid RL. Ugh
Ugljesa
#42 - 2014-01-08 17:50:39 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Mythrandier wrote:
Ugljesa wrote:
silens vesica wrote:
We've been begging for an update to POS's for years. For years, CCP has promised us 'Soon.' For years, they have failed to take that promise seriously.

War-dec the corp, and nuke the tower.

Can't really do that, and all profit goes to war...




Incorrect.

We made a couple of billion wardeccing dead corps, taking down the tower and stealing all the modules.

^^
This.

Spent a week clearing out all the abandoned towers in our home WH. Of course, didn't need to wardec them - not out there. There have grown a new crop of abandoned towers, and I suppose some day we'll go about and blap those, too.

In HiSec, bring an Oracle gang, blap the tower, clear up the leftovers, and be done in time for beers at the pub.

Edit:
I don't consider the Oracle gang to be a work-around. It's the way things are designed to be done, as the POS code is written. I get that you want to be able to steal other folks' towers with no real work (other than playing 'games'), but it isn't going to happen any time soon.

Of course, if 'steal teh tower' ever becomes possible, I'll happily join in on that action, but I don't expect to ever see it.



I really don't see how that is "real" work. It's boring and repetitive. Requires much organization, and amounts of people needed to drop POS tower in high sec is huge, and seems to me as a waist.

It's obsolete code from ancient time.

What I am proposing is spicing things up. Hack the tower is not supposed to be easy, you get to be fired upon by station if your hack is detected. If you manage to hack it it's yours.
Ugljesa
#43 - 2014-01-08 17:53:04 UTC
Ruskarn Andedare wrote:
Ugljesa wrote:
Ka'Narlist wrote:
6-8 hours? wtf

just bring 50 dudes in oracles and be done in under 30 mins


that is a work-around the problem, and not a very good one to be honest.

Splitting loot between 50 dudes may turn this venture not to be so profitable, not to mention organization needed for that.

Idea is to introduce hack-the-station-game with in EVE.

Brains or rather skill over muscle.


Except to remove TZ issues the first hack would have to give the owners a 24 hour + reinforcement timer warning.


Another good suggestion, keep them rolling folks :)
Jill Chastot
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2014-01-08 18:20:28 UTC
Mascha Tzash wrote:
Jill Chastot wrote:
PoS code is old, horrible,covoluted, messy and a headache and a half for CCP to even think about looking at let alone change something in it.



I'd bet that at least one dev who rencently looked at this code decided to let it be as it is now and do sveral things:

- ask him-/herself what the original dev was thinking/doing/drinking when he/she wrote these lines
- ask him-/herself how this code could ever work
- be happy that it works in some miracolous ways
- leave it to someone else to cope with the POS code
- create soemthing new from ground up because of "it's easier to start something new than to repair something more or less broken"


Except creating brand new code is 99.999% worse. Code doesn't magically break over time and many original problems have been fixed.
New code may not even work at all, so removeing something working (albeit averagely) to replace it with new and untested PoS code and workings has no guarantee of being an improvement or even working. Imagine PoS being completely unusable for months on months, that would be a bloody kicker to ever WH corp, most research corps and 80% of null corps.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Ugljesa
#45 - 2014-01-08 18:31:17 UTC
Jill Chastot wrote:
Mascha Tzash wrote:
Jill Chastot wrote:
PoS code is old, horrible,covoluted, messy and a headache and a half for CCP to even think about looking at let alone change something in it.



I'd bet that at least one dev who rencently looked at this code decided to let it be as it is now and do sveral things:

- ask him-/herself what the original dev was thinking/doing/drinking when he/she wrote these lines
- ask him-/herself how this code could ever work
- be happy that it works in some miracolous ways
- leave it to someone else to cope with the POS code
- create soemthing new from ground up because of "it's easier to start something new than to repair something more or less broken"


Except creating brand new code is 99.999% worse. Code doesn't magically break over time and many original problems have been fixed.
New code may not even work at all, so removeing something working (albeit averagely) to replace it with new and untested PoS code and workings has no guarantee of being an improvement or even working. Imagine PoS being completely unusable for months on months, that would be a bloody kicker to ever WH corp, most research corps and 80% of null corps.


With every change, risks there are. Can't argue with that. But, why would one release defect code? In software development there are certain steps which help reduce production issues.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#46 - 2014-01-08 23:17:43 UTC
Ugljesa wrote:


I really don't see how that is "real" work. It's boring and repetitive. Requires much organization, and amounts of people needed to drop POS tower in high sec is huge, and seems to me as a waist.
Dude that sounds EXACTLY like real work to me. It's the sort of stuff I do in the real world pretty much every day. Well, not shooting tower, but the rest of it is pretty apt. And raelly, it doesn't take all that many people. Twenty Oracles can do the job in a short time. I see fleets - Hell, I *participate* in fleets - that size in Hi-Sec all the time. Just hire some mercs to help you out.

Quote:
What I am proposing is spicing things up. Hack the tower is not supposed to be easy, you get to be fired upon by station if your hack is detected. If you manage to hack it it's yours.
Nope. What you're asking for is a shortcut. Unpowered towers gunna shoot at you..? Uh... No. They're going to sit there like the enormous lumps of cold alloy they are.

Get off your backside, hire a few mercs, war-dec the owner corp, smoke the tower, and split the rewards (if any) and/or put up your own tower. Hell, I know for a fact that there's a group advertising *exactly* the kind of help you need, right now, over in C&P. You don't even need to show up in person - just write the check. Hows *that* for a shortcut for ya?
Ugljesa
#47 - 2014-01-09 00:23:11 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Ugljesa wrote:


I really don't see how that is "real" work. It's boring and repetitive. Requires much organization, and amounts of people needed to drop POS tower in high sec is huge, and seems to me as a waist.
Dude that sounds EXACTLY like real work to me. It's the sort of stuff I do in the real world pretty much every day. Well, not shooting tower, but the rest of it is pretty apt. And raelly, it doesn't take all that many people. Twenty Oracles can do the job in a short time. I see fleets - Hell, I *participate* in fleets - that size in Hi-Sec all the time. Just hire some mercs to help you out.

Quote:
What I am proposing is spicing things up. Hack the tower is not supposed to be easy, you get to be fired upon by station if your hack is detected. If you manage to hack it it's yours.
Nope. What you're asking for is a shortcut. Unpowered towers gunna shoot at you..? Uh... No. They're going to sit there like the enormous lumps of cold alloy they are.

Get off your backside, hire a few mercs, war-dec the owner corp, smoke the tower, and split the rewards (if any) and/or put up your own tower. Hell, I know for a fact that there's a group advertising *exactly* the kind of help you need, right now, over in C&P. You don't even need to show up in person - just write the check. Hows *that* for a shortcut for ya?


Sorry for trying to spice up the life of EVE with something new besides mass gank fleets.

Surely POS tower could be programmed to have auxiliary power supply in case of hack's. I don't see what's wrong with that idea.

What I mind is having to finish everything with mass fleets.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#48 - 2014-01-09 01:31:16 UTC
Ugljesa wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Ugljesa wrote:


I really don't see how that is "real" work. It's boring and repetitive. Requires much organization, and amounts of people needed to drop POS tower in high sec is huge, and seems to me as a waist.
Dude that sounds EXACTLY like real work to me. It's the sort of stuff I do in the real world pretty much every day. Well, not shooting tower, but the rest of it is pretty apt. And raelly, it doesn't take all that many people. Twenty Oracles can do the job in a short time. I see fleets - Hell, I *participate* in fleets - that size in Hi-Sec all the time. Just hire some mercs to help you out.

Quote:
What I am proposing is spicing things up. Hack the tower is not supposed to be easy, you get to be fired upon by station if your hack is detected. If you manage to hack it it's yours.
Nope. What you're asking for is a shortcut. Unpowered towers gunna shoot at you..? Uh... No. They're going to sit there like the enormous lumps of cold alloy they are.

Get off your backside, hire a few mercs, war-dec the owner corp, smoke the tower, and split the rewards (if any) and/or put up your own tower. Hell, I know for a fact that there's a group advertising *exactly* the kind of help you need, right now, over in C&P. You don't even need to show up in person - just write the check. Hows *that* for a shortcut for ya?


Sorry for trying to spice up the life of EVE with something new besides mass gank fleets.

Surely POS tower could be programmed to have auxiliary power supply in case of hack's. I don't see what's wrong with that idea.

What I mind is having to finish everything with mass fleets.
I know spice. What you propose is not spice. You should feel bad for even claiming that it is spice.
Ugljesa
#49 - 2014-01-09 01:33:41 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Ugljesa wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Ugljesa wrote:


I really don't see how that is "real" work. It's boring and repetitive. Requires much organization, and amounts of people needed to drop POS tower in high sec is huge, and seems to me as a waist.
Dude that sounds EXACTLY like real work to me. It's the sort of stuff I do in the real world pretty much every day. Well, not shooting tower, but the rest of it is pretty apt. And raelly, it doesn't take all that many people. Twenty Oracles can do the job in a short time. I see fleets - Hell, I *participate* in fleets - that size in Hi-Sec all the time. Just hire some mercs to help you out.

Quote:
What I am proposing is spicing things up. Hack the tower is not supposed to be easy, you get to be fired upon by station if your hack is detected. If you manage to hack it it's yours.
Nope. What you're asking for is a shortcut. Unpowered towers gunna shoot at you..? Uh... No. They're going to sit there like the enormous lumps of cold alloy they are.

Get off your backside, hire a few mercs, war-dec the owner corp, smoke the tower, and split the rewards (if any) and/or put up your own tower. Hell, I know for a fact that there's a group advertising *exactly* the kind of help you need, right now, over in C&P. You don't even need to show up in person - just write the check. Hows *that* for a shortcut for ya?


Sorry for trying to spice up the life of EVE with something new besides mass gank fleets.

Surely POS tower could be programmed to have auxiliary power supply in case of hack's. I don't see what's wrong with that idea.

What I mind is having to finish everything with mass fleets.
I know spice. What you propose is not spice. You should feel bad for even claiming that it is spice.


Oh, wait, what, we don't agree? I am shocked.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#50 - 2014-01-09 01:38:02 UTC
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Dude that sounds EXACTLY like real work to me. It's the sort of stuff I do in the real world pretty much every day. Well, not shooting tower, but the rest of it is pretty apt.


I think my days at work would be much better if after working with an utter dipshit all day I could just shoot at a tower (or shoot him from a tower...)

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2014-01-09 03:09:55 UTC
Ugljesa wrote:
Jill Chastot wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
I want to thank the OP for signing his/her post. I would have never known who made it otherwise.

Also, shoutout for that wonderful prose. It moved me.


To be fair i still don't know whos post it is. i keep thinking of Ero's alt obungawhatever


What are you two blabbering about? :)


everyone is ignoring you because this is the 9000th topic on this issue and everything got said a long time ago.
someone even wrote you a song about it.
In a sandbox game you options are.
1. cry on the forums and get either trolled or war decced or ganked depending on peoples mood. (pro tip CCP designed it this way and cares nothing for your sadness).
2. war dec someone and kill their stuff.
3. Find an empty moon.
4. Give up.
5. pay someone else to effort for you.
so far you have picked the option least helpful to everyone and the one most likely to result in harm to your in game persona. Please pick another option and refrain from making new topics until you actually have a new topic to make.
TIA.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85
Bobby Frutt
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-01-09 04:38:46 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Ode to Search Function.
By Unsuccessfual at Everything.

Oh Search Function,
Your unused link long forgotten by time.
Lonely you are, so lonely.
For only I know where you are.

I use you all the time,
But my touch alone is not enough,
For you lust after the touch of others,
And I am only one.

The things you do Search Function!
You find what it is I seek and more!
From author to topic you see it all!
I feel no need to repost.

Oh Search Function,
One day they'll remember you,
When they cant find what they seek,
Until then, you will wait.

You see Search Function,
That dirty girl New Topic just gives it away,
She is too easy to use,
And so we see the same topics....

Over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over

Again.

Fin.

EVE's search function is so bad.

I fully support repetitive threads at the very least as a means of protesting more awful UI on their part. :D
Ugljesa
#53 - 2014-01-09 21:18:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Ugljesa
Silvetica Dian wrote:
Ugljesa wrote:
Jill Chastot wrote:
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:
I want to thank the OP for signing his/her post. I would have never known who made it otherwise.

Also, shoutout for that wonderful prose. It moved me.


To be fair i still don't know whos post it is. i keep thinking of Ero's alt obungawhatever


What are you two blabbering about? :)


everyone is ignoring you because this is the 9000th topic on this issue and everything got said a long time ago.
someone even wrote you a song about it.
In a sandbox game you options are.
1. cry on the forums and get either trolled or war decced or ganked depending on peoples mood. (pro tip CCP designed it this way and cares nothing for your sadness).
2. war dec someone and kill their stuff.
3. Find an empty moon.
4. Give up.
5. pay someone else to effort for you.
so far you have picked the option least helpful to everyone and the one most likely to result in harm to your in game persona. Please pick another option and refrain from making new topics until you actually have a new topic to make.
TIA.


This just plain poor attitude to change.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#54 - 2014-01-09 21:24:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Plastic Psycho
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Plastic Psycho wrote:
Dude that sounds EXACTLY like real work to me. It's the sort of stuff I do in the real world pretty much every day. Well, not shooting tower, but the rest of it is pretty apt.


I think my days at work would be much better if after working with an utter dipshit all day I could just shoot at a tower (or shoot him from a tower...)

^^^
Yes.

I haz power of permissions. Can modify. Better than rifle, enny day: Never miss. Victim scream longer.
Jill Chastot
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#55 - 2014-01-09 21:25:54 UTC
Ugljesa wrote:
Jill Chastot wrote:
Mascha Tzash wrote:
Jill Chastot wrote:
PoS code is old, horrible,covoluted, messy and a headache and a half for CCP to even think about looking at let alone change something in it.



I'd bet that at least one dev who rencently looked at this code decided to let it be as it is now and do sveral things:

- ask him-/herself what the original dev was thinking/doing/drinking when he/she wrote these lines
- ask him-/herself how this code could ever work
- be happy that it works in some miracolous ways
- leave it to someone else to cope with the POS code
- create soemthing new from ground up because of "it's easier to start something new than to repair something more or less broken"


Except creating brand new code is 99.999% worse. Code doesn't magically break over time and many original problems have been fixed.
New code may not even work at all, so removeing something working (albeit averagely) to replace it with new and untested PoS code and workings has no guarantee of being an improvement or even working. Imagine PoS being completely unusable for months on months, that would be a bloody kicker to ever WH corp, most research corps and 80% of null corps.


With every change, risks there are. Can't argue with that. But, why would one release defect code? In software development there are certain steps which help reduce production issues.


Because CCP Straight

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#56 - 2014-01-09 21:46:25 UTC
I like the OPs idea. I think POSs being anchored indefinitely is stupid too... they and related structures should unanchor on their own after x amount of time sans fuel.

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Ugljesa
#57 - 2014-01-09 21:59:10 UTC
Gogela wrote:
I like the OPs idea. I think POSs being anchored indefinitely is stupid too... they and related structures should unanchor on their own after x amount of time sans fuel.


If you don't mind Ill add this to main body of message.
Ugljesa
#58 - 2014-01-09 22:05:16 UTC
I bet, all people who are against this change stand to lose a lot of POS towers.
Plastic Psycho
Necro-Economics
#59 - 2014-01-09 22:08:10 UTC
Ugljesa wrote:
I bet, all people who are against this change stand to lose a lot of POS towers.

What did I just win? Is it a Fedo? It is, isn't it?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#60 - 2014-01-13 02:08:25 UTC
POS bash fleet, keeping a bit of "MM" into "MMO".
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