Player Features and Ideas Discussion

As much as I would LOVE the possibility to drop Blops onto suspects or war targets or whatever, the flip-side argument of enabling super-safe cargo runs with bridging Blockade Runners about means it's a bad idea.

Blockade runners are already unscannable + covert ops cloakable so imagine how many more officer mods would make it to Jita if all they had to do was bridge.. instead of flying through gates where they can be intercepted



^^^ if someone can bridge your BR into a safe in Jita, then the only exposure to other ships is the same 0km warp-in you use normally to get to dock thus risk is almost zero. You wouldn't bridge onto the station cause that's ASKING for attention while your session change timer ticks over and you're mashing the dock button with your 5k ehp

just a quick thing about JF's...don't cyno them to hisec gates in lowsec - stations are your friend with big docking rings whereas gates are comparatively tiny if you b-b-b-bounce! :P


Anyways the only way I can see covert cynos working in Hisec is if bridging to hisec is disabled. sry =/

Read the topic before posting. Please.
As was said countless times, BRs travel through empire space very safely without any cynos.


Again, read the topic before posting. It's not long yet.
Jumping directly to tradehubs should not be allowed (already mentioned), liting covcyno in highsec and jumping to it should give suspect flag to every such ship (already mentioned).

/me sighs...
Read the topic.

Or just leave the game. Wich would mean lesser potential targets or even allies in the long run.

I'm neither against nor for you idea as it would not affect me.
But if i think of all the possible exclusions that would have to be made for sanctity of server stability, noob-protection, making sure it's not abused for industrial issues, etcetc... Is it really implementable?

And what would it help the general unaware "carebear" if he was roflstomped by a covcyno-crew? Nothing more than beeing roflstomped by a not-covcynocrew, I'd say.

Would it help more to invite those unknowing players into low/null/WH-space and teach them the ropes and ties? I mean actively by explaining stuff to them and doing training sessions.

Bridging does make it safer but for just moving some stuff it's excessive. And it can be more dangerous, because as was said several times (read the topic) - covcynos in highsec should give suspect flag to everyone using it, plus it should be visible in overview in highsec just like normal cynos. So anyone who sees the cyno in overview and few suspects in local can easily warp to them and tackle the hauler legally.
The guy you just linked is a slowpoke, it's his fault not the ship's.

Expensive stuff .. expensive stuff.. I move 1-2b worth things to trade hubs on a very regular basis for almost 2 years. Sometimes I even use normal T1 or T2 frigates (not cloaky) for that, and have NEVER been suicide ganked. When I move stuff in a Blockade Runner I'm absolutely sure I'll reach the destination safely, unless I go afk right before jumping through a gate (but I prefer to wait few more seconds and go afk cloaked).

About hubs.. nobody will move 'expensive stuff' from hubs to neighbouring systems just for the comfort of some people, it's nonsense. People sell and buy in hubs and nobody wants to buy/sell some things in one place and other things in another place. People tend to do all the trading in one single place (one station, BTW), and no cyno-ish stuff can change that behaviour.


You should think of that "speaking globally..." words as a side thought. Covcynos solely can't make anyone run from highsec :D , though they can bring mercenary stuff to higher level and lead to higher wardeccing activity which could make some most lazy 'bears' suffer a bit more. Anyway they have to learn to use dscan and be cautious during wartime. But the same changes can make highsec have more pvp-oriented activities, which would also bring more newbies to pvp lifestyle (currently almost everything newbies learn and deal with in highsec is oriented to PvE; and every newbie starts in highsec).

Covcyno visible in overview in highsec, suspect after jumping to covcyno, preventing covcynos from being lit in tradehubs - what of it can be so difficult to implement?

About carebear vs covcyno: during wartime, any carebear should monitor dscan while ratting or doing other stuff; also he should use a scout (or at least warp stabilizers) for travelling. It's not connected to covcynos, it's just caution and common sense.

You miss two points - suspect flag and covcyno beacon in overview.
Let's imagine you lit the cyno in a system next to Jita. The same moment your cyno alt gets suspect and becomes visible through the whole system. Systems close to Jita always have gankers in them. So somebody in inty warps to your cyno. You in a BR jump to the cyno. It is very likely that you will appear in space close to an interceptor - and you get suspect flag the same moment. You can be tackled even more easily than near a gate (you appear in ~3-5km from the cyno) without any consequences from concord.
Habits of players will change but not around hauling between hubs. Because hauling to such destinations in BRs won't become safer than it is. Faster in cases of single jump range (more expensive + more routine with alts and fuel), but not safer.

Hypothetically covert cyno jumps in highsec systems far away from hubs are safe enough because there may be no pvpers atm. But in such systems normal gate travel is even more safe, because you don't get suspect flag and noone is camping at the gates.

And seems you have no idea how covert cyno travel works. You need fuel for portal and for BO jump itself. You need at least 3 characters at the same time: in this case you have to move the cynoalt to the next point after each jump. Or you need at least 5 characters, it means minimum 3 accounts, 3 cynoalts can be stored on a single account.
Each jump takes a lot of cap of the BO: you have to either wait till it regenerates before the BO can make the next jump following your BR, or you will have to use cap boosters.
Remember that after each jump your BO will get suspect flag and have to run away from the covcyno ASAP (btw it can be decloaked and tackled before it gains enough speed for warp if spotted well because it comes to cyno the last and tacklers have enough time to meet it, or a tackler can follow it in warp and tackle afterward).

Conclusion: highsec covcynos won't give high security for travel to tradehubs, on the contrary such travel will be more dangerous than a normal one. Covcyno travel in highsec on the routes away from hubs is excessive and brings needless risk.
So be implemented, highsec covcynos will be instruments of hotdrops and war. Not "safe" hauling.
On the other hand, covert gangs which have network of cynos will become very mobile. Pvp in highsec will become much more dynamic.

I'm all for covert cynos in hisec.

But if you think I'm going to jump to a cyno that everyone can see and gives me a global "shoot on sight" flag in my billion isk ship, you're crazy. Covert cyno takse at best 30 seconds to cycle. Any moron can and will warp to it and get a free kill on a T2 ship.

Yes to hisec covert cynos. No to suspect flag.

edit: Or no to covcyno being visible system-wide. One or the other. But not both.

It might not be a bad thing if some random nublet warps his Nightmare or Tengu to the cyno and gets his shiny new toy smashed by a covops gang.

confirmed I don't know what covert cyno's are, what fuel is or how bridging costs fuel, how capacitor boosters are essential after jumping or how MJD's are the best thing since sliced bread

there is really *no* need to start talking trash at people that simply do not agree with your idea, jeeze. And i didn't miss two points, i and others explained why those points can be dismissed as bad, you're just ignoring it.

\o/

ah, yes, sorry. I have quite a few black ops characters knocking around. What would have helped however is, considering that i was claiming to know how to use a blops bs, looking at the single black ops bs in fleet, then back to me.. then back at the name of that pilot..then back to me. confusion solved using observation is grand, so, you sort of did look at the killmail with a blind eye or just lack of brain

so anyway the reason i didnt address someone elses idea in the thread was because i didnt see it in your original or reply posts..the visible on overview, probably technical coding nightmare, solution.. but i can argue the case because you've taken it up. if im wrong on that, oh well, more words.

- putting covert beacons on the overview system-wide in hisec will be very misleading and inconsistent with current mechanics. you will have a thousand people scratching their heads about this inconsistent behaviour. its simple enough to adapt, don't get me wrong, but the solution doesn't seem elegant. it is afterall a covert cyno by name
- consider the poor code and/or coders to make it work in 0.5<1.0 exclusively [i'm sure there's an old eve joke about that somewhere...]
- tacklers are great to fly into a fleet of flashy yellow frigates, cruisers and battleships. engage it. seriously. free fight. the flipside is that you only land on a blops, BR, and bomber. warp stabs + mjds + mmjus + cloaks. it is pretty easy to get out of it. your best bet actually would be, as a would-be solo covert hunter (lol?), a tornado warping to range. again this behaviour and emergent tactics would be...odd, mainly because its hisec and 'neutral' logi is a thing

i haven't ignored the logistical side of sorting transportation of BR's around, ive just assumed that if you want to do it, that you would prepare accordingly. 3 accounts, sure. you dont need to own them yourself btw, you can have friends in this multiplayer game likewise owning a capital sort of maybe requires having a cyno character available if you want to ever move it outside of nullsec beacon systems

i didnt say it was speedy.. in fact, it was you. here.. "Has potential to create network of covcyno service providers (like current freighting organizations) for super-fast covert travel."

ill leave you to decide what to do about arguing with yourself, because thats a little weird, and no my posts arent edited or w/e you can see that.

as for more arguing im done, because we'd just keep repeating ourselves at this point, quoting other people and referring to this n that. you've certainly not sold your idea to me like some others in this thread which had their reservations..you just accused them of not knowing what black ops are there are lots of these threads with the same ideas that get shot down - you've searched a little, but not enough

My answer was going to exceed the maximum characters limit, had to remove detailed quotations. I answer line by line.

Looks like you wanted to argue with me instead of answering to the topic in general, and instead of thinking about solutions to the things which look like big problems to you.

I think new module would be too much. The beacon icon can be changed though.

I can't guess how difficult/easy would be coding such feature.
Tried to illustrate that covcyno jump to systems neighbouring with tradehubs is not so safer than normal travel by gates. I assume you're talking about solo tackle? I was talking about an interceptor backed up by a fleet. But the details are less important, jumping to such covcyno (suspect + beacon in overview + next door to a hub) is not so safe compared to normal travel to the same destination.


Then don't forget that in such case you're comparing a solo hauler travelling by gates against a hauler supported by some other people.

Mmm, actually it's not the same as saying "it's speedy". IF you have a ready network of covcynos all over the highsec then yes, such travel becomes super speedy. But such network needs money and effort done by at least several people; it's not the case for a normal covert hauler travelling solo. It's incorrect to compare 1 human against many, that's why I compared 1 player doing normal travel against the same person using 2 more characters to do the same travel by cynos. Actually, 3 persons in 3 haulers could safely move 2-3 times more expensive cargo than 1 person with 3 characters; in the same time.
But that's not what I tried to say mentioning "covcyno service providers". I wanted to say, that I don't see big problem in a single human travelling through covcynos, but the really sensible changes may come up if some player organization creates a network of covcynos to provide their services for isk: if such services come to life and become popular it can affect covert ships' traffic very significantly (but not nesessarily in a negative way, just something new and mostly unknown in big scale).

My posts are edited because I'm not a native english speaker and have to fix some typos, wrong choise of words, etc.

I assume that someone doesn't know something or didn't read the topic when people just post short replies to just one point which they paid attention to, ignoring other points (including possible but not yet mentioned ones) which also affect the same aspect of the idea. I, personally, would read every single post in a topic about stuff seriously affecting my playstyle. If people have some real objections and arguments they usually explain themselves: why something is wrong and why it cannot be fixed. Actually you usually can see when someone really has read the topic and gave thought to it.
For example, the part about making everyone suspect after jumping to covcyno wasn't made by me, it was suggested by other people. I didn't plan to just create topic with a "complete" idea and leave it be, I rather wanted the idea to develop and turn into something that really might become eve's reality. In other words I like the idea of covert cynos in highsec in general, details are subject for changes.
ATM I've already updated the 1st post, for people who answer without reading the whole discussion. Should've done it earlier, my big mistake.


I think "regular cynos, bombs in highsec" is a too strong exaggeration. Why people move to other places? Because they want to try more things. You won't make pvp more popular among newbies without bringing it closer to them. I would even include wardec pvp into the tutorials for newbies.
Emm, highsec is safe, relatively. To be more correct, to be safe in highsec you need much less caution than in other areas.

I don't know what reasons have all other people who like the highsec covcyno idea. Speaking frankly, I myself just want to see endless mature dogfight wardec pvp in there, so that I could come to highsec and live pvper without ever touching a carebear, always having targets for fights on any scale from 2-3 people up to several dozens on each side -- that's the ideal. Imagine highsec as a legal everboiling and changing warzone interlaced with covcyno hotdrop-counterhotdrop fights here and there.
And covcynos actually could help wardec pvp (not griefing) gain more popularity. So, my purpose here is: bring covcynos to HS, avoid making them overpowered for griefing, encourage making them nice for pvper vs pvper.. activities. More fights, more dynamic, less griefing. If you like my vision of it, any constructive thoughts are still very welcome.

Allow covert cyno in high sec.
Give suspect timer upon activating said cyno and activating covert bridge. (To prevent abuses from neutral alts)

And this is it ! I don't see why you're offering lines and lines of suggestions to balance this :D