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[Rubicon 1.1] Sisters of EVE Battleship

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Kaise Hawthorne
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1801 - 2014-01-08 14:59:54 UTC
So, here's an idea. Since SoE seems to be based around humanitarian aid and exploration, and considering Marauders recently became mini-Dreads, would it be possible to turn the Nestor into a mini-Carrier, with the ability to go into Triage?

Having the ability to lock down and get increased lock speed, repair amount, repair range, and immunity to ewar might make it a far more viable option and to some extent justify the massive price tag, as it would serve a unique role that no other ship in EVE is capable of. If you still want to emphasize exploration, increase scan strength while locked down as well. Perhaps, also, you could give it bonuses to armor repair drone speed and repair amount, to assign a single drone to support a ship to emulate the way Fighters are used.

Naturally this would likely severely complicate the development of the ship and possibly delay Rubicon 1.1, but it would be a very interesting addition to the fleet of ships capable of capsuleer use. It could also keep in line with the SoE goals, with the practical use of the Nestor to support for ailing ships or even small stations while evacuations take place.

Just tossing some ideas out there. I'm not exactly an expert on ship design philosophy, it just seems cool.
Valarie Paradox
Be Nice Inc.
Prismatic Legion
#1802 - 2014-01-08 15:08:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Valarie Paradox
CCP Rise wrote:
Hi guys, sorry for the winter break in communication. Hope you all had a good holiday!

I've been catching up a bit here and I'll try to comment on some of what I'm seeing.

Specifically, there are suggestions relating to:
  • Smartbomb bonuses - I think this would be fun to get in somewhere but the Nestor is definitely not the right place
  • More damage - it already has huge damage potential because of being drone bonused with 5 turrets, and pure tank and gank is not meant to be it's strong point.
  • More tank - it is extremely important that it can tank well enough to run most PVE content, if this isn't the case we would make adjustments but we don't expect that to be a problem. Outside of that, just like with damage, it isn't meant to be overly strong in this area.
  • Covert cloaking - we discussed this extensively and ultimately agreed that it is both too powerful, and also should belong on a tech 2 battleship before a pirate faction if it were to happen.
  • Black ops bridging - again, power level is a big concern here. We already upped the amount of damage you can bring through covert bridges with the Stratios and don't want to extend that even further. It's possible that if Black Ops had been rebalanced before the Nestor went in we may have been more likely to echo some Black Ops function, but without knowing how that rebalance will pan out exactly we didn't want to go that direction at this time.
  • MJDs - Marauders just picked up a focus on MJDs and it would be strange to do the same with the Nestor.
  • Ship maintenance arrays - we talked about this a lot as well but the new personal depots cover this function nicely without ever leading to afk gameplay (which would be a risk if it was on the Nestor)


    • I feel like you didn't really address the biggest point of concern for most folks which is that this ship has trouble traveling anywhere safely. What about giving it a regular jump drive, a cloak velocity bonus [edit] or some built-in warp core strength?

    Also, "Marauders just picked up a focus on MJDs and it would be strange to do the same with the Nestor." Why would that be strange?
    Kagura Nikon
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #1803 - 2014-01-08 15:14:48 UTC
    Owen Levanth wrote:
    CCP Rise wrote:
    I can't really say anything about the art since I don't work on it. Personally, I think the art guys do amazing work and Nestor is no exception but it is of course very subjective.


    There is no problem with the way the Nestor looks, it's a very unique and nice looking ship. That said, it's also so slow it makes even an improved cloak useless: When cloaked the Nestor is almost immobile. And without any possibility to hide your expensive, clunky ship, it won't be used in exploration. The probing bonus maybe used instead in PVP, sure. But in its current version, you could easily take the bonus on virus strength away. No-one sane will take this ship close to a site were it could easily be tackled and killed by everyone.

    Hell, the ship is expensive enough I wouldn't even dare to use it in HighSec. If I ever am rich enough to waste my fake play money like this, I'll give them names like "Flying Space Coffin" or "Prime Target".



    then do nto use it in exploration if you are so afraid. People do PVE in marauders in 0.0.. dotn see why is so problematic....

    "If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
    Roy Alleyne
    Dark Knowledge.
    #1804 - 2014-01-08 16:06:27 UTC
    Savira Terrant wrote:
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Lots and lots that was already mentioned by CCP before, just repeating the same old without actually adding any new argument.



    Well, it was you tugging it in the direction of a exploration battleship, before we even heard about a sisters battleship is in the works, by emphasising these roles on the frigate and cruiser. Then it was in the works and you wanted a scanning and hacking bonus on the hull, further emphasising it's role on exploration. We just tried to tell you how to make it actually useful for this role, nothing more.

    Another few points.

    1. I argued before that a faction ship -pirate or not - should not be based on the SoCT design philosophy in the first place.
    2. I argued before that this is the wrong time to even consider implementing a SOE battleship - since BO and pirate ships need rebalancing first - CCP is falling back into their habit of more bling instead of healthy game mechanics/balance just on a smaller scale.
    3. I argued before that a logistics battleship (espescially with the Nestors stats) is not a remotely good alternative to Logistics cruisers in any case.
    4. You say we tug it in a direction we want this ship, but you do the same thing yourself, by tugging it in the direction of a more survivable Dominix with less damage and damage application and then add arbitrary bonuses noone would ever make use of on a battleship.
    5. We did not have any questions at all, but disagreed with the overall design philosophy of this piece of garbage and seeing that you did not reconsider this at all really makes me wonder, why Team Game of Drones even makes feedback threads these days.

    Can someone please tell me why I still waste so much of my time in the balancing threads by Fozzie and Rise? Shouldn't I know better by now? Roll


    Thank you for perfectly summing up the main point to all our posts, everything else is just fluff and glitter. I agree, the SoCT design philosophy is exactly wrong for the Nestor. Why this design philosophy was chosen may be due to the successes of the rest of the line but a BS can not and should not emulate them since the only reason they work for their niche is due to the fact that their roles compliment each other well enough to perform many of them with minimal refitting if you even need to at all, their inherent agility as frigate/cruiser, and the added survivability of their covops cloaks. With none of these advantages, the Nestor needs a much more focused design with a specific role or niche in mind to make it viable. Why this isn't obvious to the CCP team I have no idea but if they don't listen to all of us now we will just have to hope that after the markets prove us right, CCP will fix it when they balance pirate ships, I just don't want to wait that long.

    P.S. No rational pilot was seriously expecting a covops cloak on a BS but is there really an excuse not to have a cloaked velocity bonus? If so, I look forward to hearing your reasoning for it CCP Rise.
    Querns
    Science and Trade Institute
    Caldari State
    #1805 - 2014-01-08 16:33:34 UTC
    Thanks for the responses, CCP Rise. I would agree that this thread is attempting to pull the ship into several different directions, and that focusing is difficult. I appreciate that you've taken the time to list each of the various ideas that have been presented most often and talk about each one. However, if you don't mind, you did miss one -- specifically, the covert jump drive. You mentioned covert bridging, which I agree is way too powerful to be on a T1 ship and belongs in the Black Ops battleship toolkit exclusively. However, just the jump drive itself could be a separate, but valuable addition to this ship and give it the push it needs to actually be used in the game instead of just an expensive setpiece in a collector's showcase. Is this also not a possibility?

    This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
    MukkBarovian
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #1806 - 2014-01-08 16:46:45 UTC  |  Edited by: MukkBarovian
    I feel the need to defend CCP decisions.

    First off there are a lot of people claiming they want this ship to be an exploration bonused ship with a cloak. You are all badwrong. Even with a cloak it would be suicidally dumb to explore with a battleship. In the 7-10 seconds it takes to align and warp a competent interceptor pilot would decloak you. Maybe you could slip through some camps by cloaking, MWDing, and Aligning, but its still iffy. Scouting is best done with an interceptor, covert ops, or a recon, something cheap that doesn't cost as much as or more than a carrier.

    Next a jump drive isn't actually an exploration tool at all. Someone has to light a cyno, which means that that person was the explorer, probably in a recon. A jump drive or a covert bridge is a bonus to rapid deployment. Furthermore if this had a black ops style jump drive it would be the most powerful thing capable of appearing through a covert cyno in terms of tank, gank, and rep. Speaking as a member of an alliance that regularly drops black ops battleships onto things, we would all switch in an instant to Nestors, cost be damned.

    Finally this ship does have an exploration bonus. Its hardwired into the hull. It reads something like -50% ship mass -50% ship velocity. This is a significant wormhole exploration bonus. It means you can fit twice as many of these things through any given wormhole. It means you can fly these through wormholes without worrying nearly as much about the WH collapsing behind you. It makes the Nestor a possible support ship for wormhole fleets, which generally consist of low mass T3 cruisers, and a few exceptionally good BS that justify their high mass through massive utility, like the Bhalgorn.

    Lets now look at the wierd proliferation of bonuses. The bonuses on this ship give it two possible roles. Its either a drone boat with utility highs that can be used for additional damage or RR, or its an oversized Guardian with 200-300K EHP and 1.5 times the repping power that just happens to have 450DPS worth of drones. In either case it seems like an excellent ship. Its clearly better than the alternatives when cost is not a factor. Our only problem is one of cost. At the current price its better to bring a triage carrier than an overpowered guardian, and its hard to justify using this in a drone configuration when you could fly a Domi for much cheaper or fly an Archon and be much tougher.

    So onto cost. Does anyone remember when T3 cruisers were worth 1.5 billion for a hull and subsystems? Remember how the first person to lose one in combat was considered a moron because he was flying such an overpriced piece of crap? Fast forward to today when most major blocks have T3 cruiser doctrines and own hundreds of the things. The sandbox can take a long time to adjust when it comes to the market. However the trend in Sisters Isk/LP is going down. You can now buy a Stratios in Jita for 350 millions isk. My vote is to wait and see if the hull drops below 1.5 billion isk by around June. If it doesn't, then we can crucify CCP Rise.
    PotatoOverdose
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #1807 - 2014-01-08 16:47:52 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
    CCP Rise wrote:
    For instance, a small PVP group might love to take advantage of the probing bonus for getting quicker results on enemy snipers or safed up opponents.
    .......
  • Black ops bridging - again, power level is a big concern here. We already upped the amount of damage you can bring through covert bridges with the Stratios and don't want to extend that even further. It's possible that if Black Ops had been rebalanced before the Nestor went in we may have been more likely to echo some Black Ops function, but without knowing how that rebalance will pan out exactly we didn't want to go that direction at this time.

    • ......

    After going over a lot of these options in detail (both initially and after reading feedback), we feel happy with the decision to go with a focus in logistics, low mass, and general versatility.

    I'll be reading further discussion and will keep you updated on any future changes, hope this answered some of your questions.

    edit: The SMA on Singularity is an error (someone tried to sneak it on while I was away for vacation I guess) and it will be removed before release.

    Two things:

    1) No FC will ever turn to his logi (the role you provided) and say "hey guys, see those snipers shooting our dudes? While you're keeping our guys alive, I also want you to probe them down at the same time." Will never happen.

    Also, any small gang that flies 1 bil+ battleships will have proper scouts (e.g. nullified t3 or covops frigs at the least), especially after the new dscan jammer hits TQ.

    2) Allow the ship to take a blops bridge (NOT fit a covert jump portal generator). In one stroke, this ship has a role.
    Blops have been seeing increased use in PvE of late (particularly the Sin). This would have a definite synergy with the Nestor, so much so that it might actually use both its exploration and logistics bonuses in a Sin+Nestor pairing. Meanwhile, the uses for a proper blops gang are obvious.

    As an added bonus, this would be self-consistent with the 2 prior SoE ships and the lore regarding its new-fangled propulsion system or whatever. If you're worried about power creep, don't be. There are good reasons why people think the nestor is pretty bad in its current form. 89 pages worth in fact, I won't go into them here. With this change, the Nestor goes from "Why?" to "Oh, that makes sense."
    XAJIRBA Darth
    All Your Wrecks Are Bolong To Sith
    #1808 - 2014-01-08 17:04:46 UTC  |  Edited by: XAJIRBA Darth
    I am mostly an Empire PvE carebeer so i'm not gonna comment the Covert/ Black Ops and other issues that are meant for living in unfriendly space. I am gonna comment the part that im familliar with.

    CCP Rise wrote:

  • More damage - it already has huge damage potential because of being drone bonused with 5 turrets, and pure tank and gank is not meant to be it's strong point.


    • Currently the ship has a huge "non-existant" potential dps of bonused drones and 5 turrets. But lets see if it can actually apply the dps:
  • if we try to EFT warrior it into 1000dps+ then we are forced to turning it into a "shield tank" ship, because we need all the low slots to achieve it. On the way to this goal we meet a powergrid problem (we cant fit your beloved lasers) and we end up with high dps that cannot be applied (not tracking for turrets and drones) - so this kind of dps exists only on the EFT screen. On other hand turning this ship into a "shield tank" is nonsense, we lose one major armor tank bonus and lose the ability to effectively RR each other (if we have multiplle Nestor hulls). Realistic dps for this ship is 800-900, in PvE environment any other pirate BS easily outclasses this dps ... but it seems like "is not meant to be it's strong point."

    • ok, lets move to the next point

    CCP Rise wrote:

  • More tank - it is extremely important that it can tank well enough to run most PVE content, if this isn't the case we would make adjustments but we don't expect that to be a problem.


    • I see here a huge missunderstaning of drone boat tanking in PvE environment. In PvE environment the main tanking issue for drone boats is not about BS survival its about drones survival (since its your main offensive platform, but it can be destroyed). Most PvE drone boats achieve it by:
    1) "sniping" rats before they get under tracking distance of sentri drones - main problem here are actually the small rats, that are fast and it takes long to lock them. And the only efficient way here is to have a tracking bonused ship (read Ishtar / Domi)
    2) another way is to switch to light drones or dock / undock / RR focussed drones, but it lowers the applied dps a lot

    What im trying to say is this ship does not need more dps/ tank then it currently has, but it need a way to be able to apply that small dps of his efficiently.

    I dont see any reasons why this ship should be weaker then all pirate BSs in terms off pure dps numbers. And i dont see any resons why this ship should be weaker then ordinary t1 BSs in terms of real applied dps. The ship currently has no actual gank bonuses (like CovOps cloak) that were the reason for frigate and cruiser to be overly weaker in dps. Why should this BS still have the penalty?

    and now the main point
    CCP Rise wrote:

    Outside of that, just like with damage, it isn't meant to be overly strong in this area.

    I only see your comments that this ship is not meant for this, not meant for that.
    Up to this point i havent seen an answer to one main question - in which area is this ship is meant to be overly strong??

    P.s. atm the D**do is only good for entering/exiting wormHoles, but it cant give birth to anything inside Blink
    Savira Terrant
    Native Freshfood
    Minmatar Republic
    #1809 - 2014-01-08 17:27:20 UTC
    MukkBarovian wrote:

    Next a jump drive isn't actually an exploration tool at all. Someone has to light a cyno, which means that that person was the explorer, probably in a recon. A jump drive or a covert bridge is a bonus to rapid deployment. Furthermore if this had a black ops style jump drive it would be the most powerful thing capable of appearing through a covert cyno in terms of tank, gank, and rep. Speaking as a member of an alliance that regularly drops black ops battleships onto things, we would all switch in an instant to Nestors, cost be damned.


    I would like to remind you of all the proposals, giving it a covert jump drive without e.g. the rep bonuses or other such things you say is overpowered.
    The jumpdrive should be the base for rapid deployment around which an exploration battleship would be balanced to finish off the harder DED sites. Time plays a very, very substinantial role in finishing them safely, which is why people already use their carriers to jump in their Marauders - which are almost unkillable when employing MJD.

    .
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
    Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
    Arataka Research Consortium
    #1810 - 2014-01-08 17:59:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
    CCP Rise wrote:
    ...

    Well, I see the points you make on a lot of this- and some of the proposals here are kind of unbalanced, but after reading your commentary, I'd just like to say a couple of things-

    A MJD bonus wouldn't be "strange", because this is a battleship that is seemingly geared towards exploration. If it can't cloak, then having a mjd activation time (instead of cooldown time, which marauders get) reduction could be very helpful in allowing it to actually get away from people at gates some of the time in low/null. Plus, it fits the theme- I just want to know why it'd be "strange"- it'd be helpful and actually make sense on the Nestor.

    Also, I just don't see why the Armor rep bonuses can be replaced by one bonus to armor repair drone effectiveness (150%), and add the MJD bonus (70%) to make a ship that can actually perform in a good way while being very unique.

    It'd probably have more chance of being flown if it had something more along these lines, instead of TWO rep bonuses that make it still a lot less effective than logis (although I do recognize the weaponry on it as being a balance factor to this).

    Additionally, why not increase the Virus Strength bonus to +15 or even +20? If somebody's going to hack in a BS, it should be better at it than a much more mobile frigate or cruiser.

    Regardless, I love the ship already- the design is awesome (it's HUGE in-game!) and I'll definitely get one, at least to spin. I just feel like it could be improved somewhat to make it a reasonable ship to fly! Cool

    Thanks for the ship, seriously- I just have thoughts about it and this is F&I, so I figured I'd share them.
    ===============================================================================
    Nestor

    Amarr BS Bonus:

    • 4% bonus to armor resists per level


    Gallente BS Bonus:

    • 10% bonus to drone damage and HP per level


    Role Bonuses:

    • 150% bonus to effectiveness of armor repair drones
      • 70% reduction to MJD activation time
      50% bonus to optimal range of large energy turrets
      50% bonus to scan strength of probes
      +15 virus strength for analyzers


    Again, just my ideas. Thanks for reading, Rise

    "A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
    I am disposable
    Republic University
    Minmatar Republic
    #1811 - 2014-01-08 18:05:19 UTC
    CCP Rise wrote:
    Hi guys, sorry for the winter break in communication. Hope you all had a good holiday!

    I've been catching up a bit here and I'll try to comment on some of what I'm seeing.

    There's a lot of concern about the price, which is completely understandable as it will be rather expensive at current SOE LP value, but that cost is controlled by the market and doesn't affect the thinking behind the LP price that we set. This is a ship that is meant to function at pirate faction meta level and is attainable at less risk than other pirate faction Battleships because of being available in high sec, which warrants the step up in LP cost. If it turns out that price is so prohibitive that people can't justify using the Nestor as much as we would want we can investigate ways to make it more attractive or make it easier to get, but hopefully that won't be necessary.

    As far as the ship design itself, everyone is trying to tug it in a direction that matches their ideal application, which makes sense considering that for most people some ship traits won't be useful due to their diverse nature. I want to reiterate that removing some of these smaller traits wouldn't necessarily mean we could suddenly add something else. The exploration bonuses are a good example. Many people won't use the hacking or probing bonus, but in some cases they will add nice options. For instance, a small PVP group might love to take advantage of the probing bonus for getting quicker results on enemy snipers or safed up opponents. These bonuses come cheap in terms of balance and characterize the Sisters of EVE ships as a whole so we like including them, but don't let that make you think they are there in place of something more focused and powerful.

    Specifically, there are suggestions relating to:
  • Smartbomb bonuses - I think this would be fun to get in somewhere but the Nestor is definitely not the right place
  • More damage - it already has huge damage potential because of being drone bonused with 5 turrets, and pure tank and gank is not meant to be it's strong point.
  • More tank - it is extremely important that it can tank well enough to run most PVE content, if this isn't the case we would make adjustments but we don't expect that to be a problem. Outside of that, just like with damage, it isn't meant to be overly strong in this area.
  • Covert cloaking - we discussed this extensively and ultimately agreed that it is both too powerful, and also should belong on a tech 2 battleship before a pirate faction if it were to happen.
  • Black ops bridging - again, power level is a big concern here. We already upped the amount of damage you can bring through covert bridges with the Stratios and don't want to extend that even further. It's possible that if Black Ops had been rebalanced before the Nestor went in we may have been more likely to echo some Black Ops function, but without knowing how that rebalance will pan out exactly we didn't want to go that direction at this time.
  • MJDs - Marauders just picked up a focus on MJDs and it would be strange to do the same with the Nestor.
  • Ship maintenance arrays - we talked about this a lot as well but the new personal depots cover this function nicely without ever leading to afk gameplay (which would be a risk if it was on the Nestor)

    • After going over a lot of these options in detail (both initially and after reading feedback), we feel happy with the decision to go with a focus in logistics, low mass, and general versatility.

    I'll be reading further discussion and will keep you updated on any future changes, hope this answered some of your questions.

    edit: The SMA on Singularity is an error (someone tried to sneak it on while I was away for vacation I guess) and it will be removed before release.


    In other words nothing is going to change even though poster after poster has pointed out that currently this thing is nothing but a massively overpriced yet gimped Dominix with mostly useless bonuses tacked on. Why am I not surprised?
    Arthur Aihaken
    CODE.d
    #1812 - 2014-01-08 18:53:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
    CCP Rise wrote:
    After going over a lot of these options in detail (both initially and after reading feedback), we feel happy with the decision to go with a focus in logistics, low mass, and general versatility.

    This is yet another example of where a new "feature" was "suggested", but in reality the final version will essentially be the first version sans some minor cosmetic changes. There's only one organization in EVE that will benefit from being able to obtain and field the Nestor for a fraction of the cost of everyone else. I'm really trying to avoid drinking the kool-aid, but I'm at a loss to figure out how this $2-billion armor logistics blender is supposed to have any appeal?

    PS. Now that you're back from holidays, do you think we could please get an RLML update? We've only been waiting since November...

    I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
    baltec1
    Bat Country
    Pandemic Horde
    #1813 - 2014-01-08 19:37:08 UTC
    Powergrid is tight. Even with two t2 PG rigs and a few other sacrifices I cannot use those two spare highs.
    Mournful Conciousness
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #1814 - 2014-01-08 19:38:44 UTC
    Kagura Nikon wrote:

    Funny .. we kill almsot as many navy drakes as normal drakes.

    They are not rare at all. And I see far more fleet hurricanes than normal hurricanes (basically because the normal variant is so weak now).

    ...



    This is interesting. Without wishing to sound challenging, are you able point me to your corp's killboard so I can check those numbers? It's easy to get carried away in a forum and claim that 25 is as near as dammit to 125 (say).

    If it is true that you kill as many navy drakes as normal drakes, here might be a tongue in cheek explanation:

    * Anyone who chooses to fly a navy drake, which does less DPS, is harder to fit and is weaker than an ordinary one is clearly a moron. Morons by their very definition make easy targets because they do moronic things - like spending a quarter of a billion on inferior ships when they could spend 50 million on a better one.

    * There are many morons in spaceships

    * They hang out in hisec, where you hunt them

    * Being morons, they take the bait, wrongly believing that the "Navy" part of the name implies a powerful ship that stands a chance against a bunch of professional griefers who've seen it all before.

    Blink

    Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
    Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
    Arataka Research Consortium
    #1815 - 2014-01-08 20:01:24 UTC
    baltec1 wrote:
    Powergrid is tight. Even with two t2 PG rigs and a few other sacrifices I cannot use those two spare highs.

    Well what're you fitting on it? it's not supposed to fit tachyons or anytyhing- Dual heavy beams+drones seems to be the way to go

    "A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
    Mournful Conciousness
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #1816 - 2014-01-08 20:04:16 UTC
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
    baltec1 wrote:
    Powergrid is tight. Even with two t2 PG rigs and a few other sacrifices I cannot use those two spare highs.

    Well what're you fitting on it? it's not supposed to fit tachyons or anytyhing- Dual heavy beams+drones seems to be the way to go


    for DPS and damage application you're better off fitting medium beams.

    I use medium rails on the pve dominix for the same reason.

    Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
    Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
    Arataka Research Consortium
    #1817 - 2014-01-08 20:08:05 UTC
    Mournful Conciousness wrote:
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
    baltec1 wrote:
    Powergrid is tight. Even with two t2 PG rigs and a few other sacrifices I cannot use those two spare highs.

    Well what're you fitting on it? it's not supposed to fit tachyons or anytyhing- Dual heavy beams+drones seems to be the way to go


    for DPS and damage application you're better off fitting medium beams.

    I use medium rails on the pve dominix for the same reason.


    Seems reasonable. I just say that because it even has medium beams in the picture they gave us- and I can do with that- dual heavy beams/drones, MJD and snipe- it works for me, even if it's not the best Cool

    "A City made of Dreams is built in heaven"
    Marlona Sky
    State War Academy
    Caldari State
    #1818 - 2014-01-08 20:08:47 UTC
    Outside of the "Hey look at me!" I am not feeling the least bit compelled to choose this ship over any other ship in the game to fly.
    sabastyian
    Worthless Carebears
    The Initiative.
    #1819 - 2014-01-08 20:15:25 UTC
    http://i.imgur.com/8kB06ul.png
    Quick cook up i had, thats with slaves and my skills. Powergrid was an issue, with mega pulse you dont get a mwd or a cap booster. If you go dual plate your dps becomes even worse.
    Problems with this ship :
    1) Dps is anemic, cruisers get more dps
    2) Fitting, the fitting for this ship ( and soe in general ) is quite terrible
    3) SMA of 0, not even 5k for a shuttle....just 0
    4) Can't jump like a black ops ( taking away from either the exploration theme, or the ability to be remotely useful )
    5) The price.
    baltec1
    Bat Country
    Pandemic Horde
    #1820 - 2014-01-08 20:21:05 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
    Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
    baltec1 wrote:
    Powergrid is tight. Even with two t2 PG rigs and a few other sacrifices I cannot use those two spare highs.

    Well what're you fitting on it? it's not supposed to fit tachyons or anytyhing- Dual heavy beams+drones seems to be the way to go


    Same as the nano mega I use only with Large pulse. I knew PG was going to limit me but it seems very tight for what the ships bonuses ask for.

    Its very interesting but a little more PG so you can make use of those spare highs without losing those large lasers would be nice. I also cant help but feel the ship would be better serviced with missile slots as opposed to lasers but thats just my personal thought.