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Returning from a long break,,,,, question about griefers
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Jessica Danikov
Network Danikov
#421 - 2014-01-07 20:26:49 UTC
One guy makes a big fuss about bumping miners and suddenly there's a threadnaught about it?

Just because they're loud and they occasionally generate tears, doesn't mean they represent the entire new player experience. If anything, they're more the exception to the rule- the majority of new players will be left be to their own devices or find a home in one of the countless multitudes of newbie friend training corps, or grow old enough that encountering such people is no longer 'new player'. All this fuss is just free advertising.

If you feel what they're doing is wrong, compete with their content. Form the anti-Order corp. Contact all those who purchased mining permits, all those ganked by them, or recruit like-minded people to fight them. That would be a good story, successes and failures, their content and your content, feeding and building off each other. The sandbox empowers you to do that, just as it empowers them.

Or would that be too much work, too much action? You seem convinced that talking won't achieve anything, so why not do something instead.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#422 - 2014-01-07 20:28:19 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Look, it's clear that you have no actual interest in discussing this, you simply are going to troll for eternity, misrepresentting what people are askign for and demanding impossible to answer questions. You wanted some weird impossible to gauge numeric and I gave you exactly that.

At the end of the day I think newbies don't get enough given to them to avoid or defend against ganking and bumping which is IMHO way too easy to do these days. That's my opinion, and you will not change it. Trolling me in this thread will get nowhere, though to be honest, as with all threads on any subject in eve it's quickly filled with the usual troll crowd.

If an when CCP want to discuss this stuff then it will be worth discussing. Until then all we will do is get into the same deadlock we have now which is where we want some level of changes while you take that to mean 100% safety and refuse to listen to anything but that. In the meantime it affects me to the sum of zero since I live in nullsec.

Now that the new order plebs are starting to join in too I really can't be arsed to read pages and pages of bullshit, so I'm calling it here.

/part thread


I can assure you that I am not intentionally trolling you Lucas. Big smile

I can say that I may or may not be guilty of trolling some others in this thread who feel they have the right to:

1) Not fit a tank
2) Go AFK
3) Demand changes because 1 and 2 are not safe.

You, unfortunately, got caught in the crossfire because you rushed to their defense. Lucas, the people you are defending in this thread are not newbie miners. They have been exposed to Eve for at least a year.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#423 - 2014-01-07 21:16:58 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
lol, OK I'll do it.
ZynnLee, security status already works that way, 1.0 is about 5 seconds for response and it's nearly impossible to effectively gank there. 0.5 is around 25 seconds in a prepped system, 20 unprepped.

EDIT: Oh and if it was unclear, 0.6-0.9 scales between the two.

Let this be an example of how much I am opposed to ganking. I have actually structured my game around avoiding it. I don't get to do the things I'd like to thanks to the ability to get popped for any or no reason at all. My only ship loss since returning a month ago was a Venture in .5 space, and I think I have a hardener on it....

I have never in all the time played, had Concord show up to punish someone who attacked me. That is how seriously I avoid it. It is completely un-fun. But, I play BF4 almost daily, loved BG in WoW and ToR. A little insight into me that will probably allow my blush to fade faster......



The bolded part is important, has it ever occured to you that the problem is you're choosing to play a game outside of your "enjoyment zone". The problem is your expectations, not what happens inside the game. No, the game should not change to fit your expectations, rather you should either adapt to it, or adapt out of it....
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#424 - 2014-01-07 23:08:23 UTC
Lucas Kell says highsec needs to be safer.

Holy ****, dude. Highsec has been continually made safer over the past several years and each time we hear "no it needs to be safer".

Now ganking is at an all time low and what do we hear? "Highsec needs to be safer."
Get your head on straight ffs.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#425 - 2014-01-07 23:42:28 UTC
I think this stems from the fallacy that high sec is actually "safe" at all. This attitude needs to be looked at. Roll

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#426 - 2014-01-07 23:46:20 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Lucas Kell says highsec needs to be safer.

Holy ****, dude. Highsec has been continually made safer over the past several years and each time we hear "no it needs to be safer".

Now ganking is at an all time low and what do we hear? "Highsec needs to be safer."
Get your head on straight ffs.


Don't be too hard on Lucas. I think he sees this debate in the context of the moment and not in the context of its continued evolution.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#427 - 2014-01-07 23:50:56 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Lucas Kell says highsec needs to be safer.

Holy ****, dude. Highsec has been continually made safer over the past several years and each time we hear "no it needs to be safer".

Now ganking is at an all time low and what do we hear? "Highsec needs to be safer."
Get your head on straight ffs.

See, this is precisely teh reason I started ganking. 'Cause I was sick and tired of this air of entitlement and nanny-ism.


The very advertisments for the game say "Be the Villain." The holiday vid has a bunch of miscreants blapping Santa's ship. Last year, the same miscreants vaprozied Santa in person, only to get a mega-nuke dropped on *their* heads by jolly ol' Saint Nick himself! The developers and staff have made a rap video telling folks to HTFU!

How many more times and how much more explicitly can the point be made..?!
EVE is COMBAT.
Including non-consensual combat. Hi-Sec is not supposed to be a nursery with CONCORD to kiss your boo-boos and give you a lolly... The most you can hope is that CONCORD gives your killer a good retaliatory bollocking. Hi-Sec is just a zone where you can expect a bit of impersonal vengeance - and not much of that, either.

Get used to it, folks!

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#428 - 2014-01-08 00:05:37 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Lucas Kell says highsec needs to be safer.

Holy ****, dude. Highsec has been continually made safer over the past several years and each time we hear "no it needs to be safer".

Now ganking is at an all time low and what do we hear? "Highsec needs to be safer."
Get your head on straight ffs.

See, this is precisely teh reason I started ganking. 'Cause I was sick and tired of this air of entitlement and nanny-ism.


The very advertisments for the game say "Be the Villain." The holiday vid has a bunch of miscreants blapping Santa's ship. Last year, the same miscreants vaprozied Santa in person, only to get a mega-nuke dropped on *their* heads by jolly ol' Saint Nick himself! The developers and staff have made a rap video telling folks to HTFU!

How many more times and how much more explicitly can the point be made..?!
EVE is COMBAT.
Including non-consensual combat. Hi-Sec is not supposed to be a nursery with CONCORD to kiss your boo-boos and give you a lolly... The most you can hope is that CONCORD gives your killer a good retaliatory bollocking. Hi-Sec is just a zone where you can expect a bit of impersonal vengeance - and not much of that, either.

Get used to it, folks!
Since that is in fact not what I stated at all this is pretty out of place...
While I'll continue to read it, I'm departed from this discussion so I'm not going to be restating anything, but I would advise that you actually read back some of the posts before taking what someone has claimed I've stated as the truth.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

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SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#429 - 2014-01-08 00:05:58 UTC
voted five would vote again.
KnowUsByTheDead
Sunlight...Through The Blight.
#430 - 2014-01-08 00:53:40 UTC
How you feel when you come back to a thread, and it is becoming a threadnaught because of carebear entitlement...

Roll

Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#431 - 2014-01-08 07:47:20 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
non-consensual sensual combat.


My favourite kind

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#432 - 2014-01-08 07:53:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:

Let this be an example of how much I am opposed to ganking. I have actually structured my game around avoiding it. I don't get to do the things I'd like to thanks to the ability to get popped for any or no reason at all.


1) Oxymoronic statement

2) If you are doing your best to avoid it, why would it happen?

3) You are passively opposed. At no point have you suggested actively fighting. And don't say it can't be done, I know plenty of people who do it.

4) You refuse to see the sense in fitting a shield tank to a Procurer, even though it does not effect your yield.

5) You say elsewhere you HAVE to put up with lower yields if you want to mine in High Sec. Um, yeah, why shouldnt the most populous area of sapce have the worst yields?

EDIT: 6) If you have structured your game around avoiding it, but you STILL dont get to do things youd like, you appear to have structured your play style to doing things you dont want to do. I suggest you change this first before asking the gae to be changed around you.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ice Eagle
#433 - 2014-01-08 11:52:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Ice Eagle
Rainbow Dash[quote=Rick II Egnald wrote:



I heard rumor that CCP was looking at a mechanic that would cause damage to ships involved in collisions. Is this true?




CCP isn't looking into anything. It's not a problem, so they're not "fixing" it.[/quote]


Receiving damage when bumping someone or an object in space used to be the norm, for those that remember.
i think i remember multiple posts about people "ganking" other people in empire by effectively bumping them to death. this way of killing someone did not invoke the concord retaliation, and was quite quickly taken out of the game.

working from memory, i might not have it 100% right
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#434 - 2014-01-08 11:55:24 UTC
Ice Eagle wrote:
people "ganking" other people in empire by effectively bumping them to death.


Make sure you yell suprise first to avoid CONCORD

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Charles Dufresne
EVE Landscape Services
#435 - 2014-01-08 13:23:23 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
I think newbies don't get enough given to them to avoid or defend against ganking and bumping

They have the tools they need, the trouble tends to lie in the fact they don't know how to use them. If ever a newbie complains about being ganked/bumped, just tell him how to avoid those issues. The more people that take part in this practice, the fewer tears there'll be.
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#436 - 2014-01-08 13:44:03 UTC
War dec them. Or pay someone to do it for you.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Careby
#437 - 2014-01-08 13:52:39 UTC
Rick II Egnald wrote:
I just started playing again after a 5 year break,,,
... some doorknob evidently finds great delight in ramming mining ships

At the risk of stating the obvious, did you try going somewhere else to mine?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#438 - 2014-01-08 15:14:08 UTC
Careby wrote:
Rick II Egnald wrote:
I just started playing again after a 5 year break,,,
... some doorknob evidently finds great delight in ramming mining ships

At the risk of stating the obvious, did you try going somewhere else to mine?


Requiring people to make an effort to avoid being bumped or ganked is an outrageous demand, they should be able to gather their virtual riches in peace while busy doing other things. Devs should ban the 'orrible bastards who interfere in the essential work of gathering virtual riches.

Oh wait this is Eve, if people can't be arsed to make an effort to protect themselves, then that's their problem. It's certainly not the problem of CCP, and it's definitely not the problem of the aforementioned 'orrible bastards that make life interesting.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Hitamino
Perkone
Caldari State
#439 - 2014-01-08 16:49:43 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Careby wrote:
Rick II Egnald wrote:
I just started playing again after a 5 year break,,,
... some doorknob evidently finds great delight in ramming mining ships

At the risk of stating the obvious, did you try going somewhere else to mine?


Requiring people to make an effort to avoid being bumped or ganked is an outrageous demand, they should be able to gather their virtual riches in peace while busy doing other things. Devs should ban the 'orrible bastards who interfere in the essential work of gathering virtual riches.

Oh wait this is Eve, if people can't be arsed to make an effort to protect themselves, then that's their problem. It's certainly not the problem of CCP, and it's definitely not the problem of the aforementioned 'orrible bastards that make life interesting.
And how exactly do they protect themselves beside running away?
Beside running away people suggest ganking them first, which is pretty much impossible except against the worst of gankers. Most of them use instant undocks and then warp straight to the target. Bumpers you could gank, but then you lose sec status so can't mine in high sec, and not everyone has multiple accounts (and that should not be a requirement to play).

I'm actually an anti-ganker, so I have a bit of experience in the field, and it's clear that the balance between gankers and the ganked is swayed heavily in the favour of the gankers. Security status does effectively nothing and all the setup can be handled by alts. Add on that ganking costs nearly nothing, and the result is one of the easiest things in the game to do. It is quite amusing when you see all the gankers on here saying "ZOMG, entitled! Put the effort in" when they in fact need to put nearly no effort in themselves.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#440 - 2014-01-08 16:54:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Lucas Kell
Careby wrote:
Rick II Egnald wrote:
I just started playing again after a 5 year break,,,
... some doorknob evidently finds great delight in ramming mining ships

At the risk of stating the obvious, did you try going somewhere else to mine?
I'm pretty sure the OP stated that he moved and it was all resolved :p

How is this thread still ongoing?

EDIT: Yeah, he did here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4079866#post4079866

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.