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Killed in 0.5 High sec space with no concord backup
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Nami Kumamato
Perkone
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-01-08 10:04:41 UTC
Rhonan Irwin wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Rhonan Irwin wrote:
Not really that fair without being able to defend yourself and being ganged up on the MTU's are about 8 million each plus cargo.
They should be like secure cargo containers in they are attacked



But you can defend yourself. Thats sort of the point. They attack it, they get aggressed, you are allowed to counterattack.

But I think you mean CONCORD should do the work for you, and thats not their purpose Im afraid.

They were made like they are for amny reasons, one of which is that while they are useful in mining, it should encourage you to fly with escorts.

Alternatively, one of your corpmates using an orca.

Alternatively, just fly back and unload.

You arent.... afk mining... are you?

Cos that would be silly.

EDIT: I wouldnt prefer them to be as small as a secure container in return for immunity.

MTU for CSM: Its the sensible choice for a Happier New Eden

EDIT EDIT: Why cant you just pull it in when they turn up? Then all you risk losing is some ore?


I responded to the attack on the MTU's within 5 seconds. Playing a second game at the same time is my only crime and Eve is always on my primary screen to see any change in game. I never afk mine.
Most of the time I am with a fleet but this was one of those exceptions.

What happened to discussing rather than making this hostile?


Playing a second game implies you were AFK (as in away from "the EvE keyboard" as in not paying attention).

Fornicate The Constabulary !
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#22 - 2014-01-08 10:06:19 UTC
Rhonan Irwin wrote:


I responded to the attack on the MTU's within 5 seconds. Playing a second game at the same time is my only crime and Eve is always on my primary screen to see any change in game. I never afk mine.
Most of the time I am with a fleet but this was one of those exceptions.

What happened to discussing rather than making this hostile?



What did I say that was hostile?

We are sorry to hear that you were upset by things that were said in my response.

Please be assured that your comments have been logged and made available to those who measure my performance.

Kind Regards,

Ramona McCandless, MD, MEP, MsC, IDST, IDKFA, NOCLIP

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Bael Malefic
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-01-08 10:11:23 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
[quote=Rhonan Irwin]

Kind Regards,

Ramona McCandless, MD, MEP, MsC, IDST, IDKFA, NOCLIP


MEP?

And there for a moment I thought you were respectable :-P
Nami Kumamato
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-01-08 10:11:55 UTC
Bael Malefic wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
[quote=Rhonan Irwin]

Kind Regards,

Ramona McCandless, MD, MEP, MsC, IDST, IDKFA, NOCLIP


MEP?

And there for a moment I thought you were respectable :-P


It's the NOCLIP that worries me...

Fornicate The Constabulary !
Rhonan Irwin
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2014-01-08 10:15:53 UTC
Nami Kumamato wrote:
Excerpt from the Galactic Regulations on Capsuleer-Deployable Mobile Structures :

Chap. 2 Sect. A
CONCORD will not, and may not be called upon to, defend, safeguard or take any protective stance regarding the Capsuleer-deployed Mobile Structures such as, but not limited to, Mobile Tractor Units, Siphoning Units and Mobile Depots.
The operational safety of the Structure and the protection of the New Eden civilian personnel assigned to these Structures falls solely under the responsibility of the anchoring Capsuleer.
Capsuleers are allowed to defend their property, however no CONCORD assistance will be provided and subsequent requests to aid against the aggressors will be ignored.


Thank you for the comment I now fully understand the error from my actions. This will mean an end of my use of MTU's considering the side effects.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#26 - 2014-01-08 10:17:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
Rhonan Irwin wrote:
I responded to the attack on the MTU's within 5 seconds. Playing a second game at the same time is my only crime and Eve is always on my primary screen to see any change in game. I never afk mine.
Most of the time I am with a fleet but this was one of those exceptions.

What happened to discussing rather than making this hostile?


No one is making this hostile at all. We are all simply trying to get a full understanding of the events that transpired.

You were filling up an MTU with ore/ice (what is their capacity anyway?).

Someone shot at your MTU - as noted this does not invoke a CONCORD response it only makes the shooter a suspect.

You commanded your drones to attack the shooter making yourself a suspect.

Shooter flew off but his two (was it two?) buddies shot at and subsequently removed you from your procurer.

My question is why not have your hauler buddy/alt empty the MTU and dock up allowing you to reel in the MTU and ignore your aggressors?

Your only crime is a lack of aggression mechanics understanding.

EDIT: I think you should be commended to some degree in this engagement. I'm glad you fought back. Had you a small gang with you or an alt in a combat ship this might have made for a really great story.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#27 - 2014-01-08 10:17:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Rhonan Irwin wrote:


Thank you for the comment I now fully understand the error from my actions. This will mean an end of my use of MTU's considering the side effects.


But why dont you just pull them in when there's baddies on the game grid?

MTU has brightened New Eden considerably since its arrival

MTU promises tax cuts and shorter working hours

MTU promises to deal with the immigration problem in Null Sec

MTU is the clear choice for a brighter tomorrow

*** MTU for CSM ***

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Nami Kumamato
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-01-08 10:23:27 UTC
Basic thing is, they are traps...they make life easier for you, the Pirates and all other eggers out there with malefic intentions.
Use them with care
Well...at least as I understood it , I'm new but I read a lot - also I'm an expert at blowing my boats up...and finding myself in situations which imply smoke and twisted metal shards popping out through my capsule shell.

Fornicate The Constabulary !
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#29 - 2014-01-08 10:30:26 UTC
Nami Kumamato wrote:
I'm an expert at blowing my boats up...and finding myself in situations which imply smoke and twisted metal shards popping out through my capsule shell.



Me too!

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Rhonan Irwin
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2014-01-08 10:31:14 UTC
An MTU has a capacity of 27 000 cubic meter's they are in game considered *secure* in the sense that only people in your fleet or yourself can access them. An MTU uses 100 cubic metres of your cargo hold and cannot be pulled in while any cargo in inside them. Both units had cargo and I was using them because of travel time effects efficiency which is the reason for the MTU's.

The Procurer has a cargo hold of 12 000 cubic metres and one Icicle is 1 000 cubic metres.

I could not take the cargo from any MTU as at the time I was full or to far away from the MTU being I had two out.

Only two ships were present at the time a Venture and an unknown T1 scanning probe frigate ship I knew at that time I was able to defend my MTU's with my drones from the low. After the Slicer navy issue came in (it warped in) all my chances were scrambled and the slicer attacked my drones which then attacked him. That is when the warp tacklers came in and I thought I would be able to wait it out not knowing any better
Tuttomenui II
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-01-08 10:37:03 UTC
Misunderstood the mtu mechanic, tried to whore in on perceived concord kills, became killmail himself, funny stuff. Funnier when my fellow mission runners make the mistake.

As a farmer doesn't eat his Milk cow you shouldn't pvp in your mining ship you use to earn isk with.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#32 - 2014-01-08 10:38:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Rhonan Irwin wrote:
. An MTU uses 100 cubic metres of your cargo hold and cannot be pulled in while any cargo in inside them.


This is untrue. You can recover it, it spits the cargo out in a jetcan. A Procurer can easily carry both MTUs in its 350m3 bay.

Rhonan Irwin wrote:
Both units had cargo and I was using them because of travel time effects efficiency which is the reason for the MTU's.


Ok, well staying alive works out better for your efficency than raw mining efficency does. How many blocks of ice are you losing per hour by spending less than 2% of your mining time in flight? How much Ice are you wasting to replace your ship? Also, if you have a hauler alt or corp mate (not saying that you did, I wasnt there) but thats how can mining used to work, get them to come out and get it.

Rhonan Irwin wrote:
I could not take the cargo from any MTU as at the time I was full or to far away from the MTU being I had two out.


How much Ice were the two frigates that attacked you able to hold? My guess is none. why were you so far away from your MTU?

Rhonan Irwin wrote:
Only two ships were present at the time a Venture and an unknown T1 scanning probe frigate ship


Yes, they cant carry ice.

Rhonan Irwin wrote:
I knew at that time I was able to defend my MTU's with my drones from the low. After the Slicer navy issue came in (it warped in) all my chances were scrambled and the slicer attacked my drones which then attacked him. That is when the warp tacklers came in and I thought I would be able to wait it out not knowing any better


So pull the 8 mill MTU, leave the can and come back in a hauler to pick up your ice.

Easy money.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#33 - 2014-01-08 10:43:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
Rhonan Irwin wrote:
An MTU has a capacity of 27 000 cubic meter's they are in game considered *secure* in the sense that only people in your fleet or yourself can access them. An MTU uses 100 cubic metres of your cargo hold and cannot be pulled in while any cargo in inside them. Both units had cargo and I was using them because of travel time effects efficiency which is the reason for the MTU's.

The Procurer has a cargo hold of 12 000 cubic metres and one Icicle is 1 000 cubic metres.

I could not take the cargo from any MTU as at the time I was full or to far away from the MTU being I had two out.

Only two ships were present at the time a Venture and an unknown T1 scanning probe frigate ship I knew at that time I was able to defend my MTU's with my drones from the low. After the Slicer navy issue came in (it warped in) all my chances were scrambled and the slicer attacked my drones which then attacked him. That is when the warp tacklers came in and I thought I would be able to wait it out not knowing any better


There is that word again. Efficiency. Maybe I don't get it because I generally prefer to sub my accounts rather than PLEX. I don't want to feel like I have to logon to maximize ISK/hr so I can buy a PLEX. I'd rather logon when I feel like and enjoy the game at my pace. I don't know that efficiency is necessarily a good thing. When I see threads from miners who have gotten ganked or baited they always use that word and there is just something unsettling in that for me.

Since I'm a hisec mission runner I'll try and correlate this to what I know.

I would never in a million years put one of these MTUs out. The cargohold on a Golem is fine and the bonus to tractors is great. Once a room is clear it IS a pain in the ass getting all the wrecks and often I wait until a target is <40k out before firing so I don't have to slowboat to within the range of the tractors. Too often though the Battleship rats will sit out at >40k. Solution, MWD. That's right! I put a ******* MWD on a Golem for efficiency.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#34 - 2014-01-08 10:46:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Kimmi Chan wrote:


I would never in a million years put one of these MTUs out. The cargohold on a Golem is fine and the bonus to tractors is great. Once a room is clear it IS a pain in the ass getting all the wrecks and often I wait until a target is <40k out before firing so I don't have to slowboat to within the range of the tractors. Too often though the Battleship rats will sit out at >40k. Solution, MWD. That's right! I put a ******* MWD on a Golem for efficiency.



Alas I cannot afford a Marauder yet, so I find MTUs invaluable for site clearing and ratting, especially in null.

I have friends who used to use them a lot for mining, but then they got an Orca and so now not so much.

Of course, they mine for personal manufacturing use, so efficency is irrelevant to them.

Also, they told me about a gank on them where they got hit by two catalysts with full T2 fit. They had a tractor out, but the gankers didnt bother with it. So when concord showed, the MTUs sucked up the lovely wrecks and fits.

One smelly retriever down, easily replaced with a lovely procurer and profit-cash to boot.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Azami Nevinyrall
172.0.0.1
#35 - 2014-01-08 10:51:02 UTC
Posting in a "I don't know how mechanics work" thread...

...
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#36 - 2014-01-08 10:57:33 UTC
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
Posting in a "I don't know how mechanics work" thread...


He does now and I think he'll be the better for it.

I do have to agree with Ramona though.

Vote MTU for CSM!

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Cheng Musana
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2014-01-08 11:10:37 UTC
MTU's are supposed to be used in nullsec for ratting. Using them in highsec is just a way to get yourself killed espacially if you set your drones to "aggressive".
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#38 - 2014-01-08 11:18:25 UTC
Cheng Musana wrote:
MTU's are supposed to be used in nullsec for ratting. Using them in highsec is just a way to get yourself killed espacially if you set your drones to "aggressive".



Its an item


Its "supposed " to be used in any way you find useful

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Rastafarian God
#39 - 2014-01-08 11:23:31 UTC
The blue (well blue / green) blinky is for dual / limited engagement.

If I had to ques, the other people shot at your unit as well and they where blinking with the little yellow / orange icon and you just did not notice. The guy blinking blue would have been the guy that you "where fighting back against". He would still have a suspect timer to everyone else but the little blinky would show blue to you to alert you to the fact that he can return fire at will. If you attack someone with a yellow suspect timer, it will show blue on your overview since attacking them triggers a limited engagement. At least thats the way it works with the default overview settings.

As for the guys that did not show up on the KM. Unless there was a MAJOR glitch (which I doubt) the reason they where not recorded was because they never actually did anything hostile against you and where just on grid (or where repping the hostile or something weird),

If you are new, and stuff like this happens, hell even if you are a vet, instances like this can feel like a car crash. Its all chaos and memory rarely serves to be correct. To put it simply, more experienced players caught you off guard that happen to know the game mechanics better and adrenalin is just most likely clouding your memory. Its OK, its happened to all of us when we first started.

As far as Concorde response, you do not get a notification of that other then a generic message on screen (that everyone see's) that goes by so fast that its easy to miss. the response time is not 25 seconds in 0.5. I personally watched an old corp mate shoot an anchored can in 0.5 once 9although i told him not to) and Concorde was there in under 10 seconds (more like 5) to blow his ass up. Its just that with you, the people attacking you knew the mechanics well enough to not trigger the Concorde response.

Unless there was some kind of glitch, in wich case, if CCP reviews the logs, they will know for sure either way if you report it.

That is assuming this is real and not a troll post.. no offense man but this type of thing is a hot topic right now so trolls are common on this subject.





Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#40 - 2014-01-08 11:25:09 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Cheng Musana wrote:
MTU's are supposed to be used in nullsec for ratting. Using them in highsec is just a way to get yourself killed espacially if you set your drones to "aggressive".



Its an item


Its "supposed " to be used in any way you find useful


I will find it useful as a member of the CSM!

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!