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Killed in 0.5 High sec space with no concord backup
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Rhonan Irwin
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-01-08 09:34:09 UTC
I want to discuss something I had happen to me today in Eve. I was mining an Icicle belt in Warouh which is 0.5 security space when I had a Venture and another player that was not recorded in my logs attack my two deployed mobile tractor units. This gave them a criminal status as it was an unprovoked attack with no permission of a duel given. I defended my tractor unit with my drones and got the unrecorded player to retreat from bad damage with no shots put onto my Procurer.

I was then attacked by the other two ships that are recorded in the battle log below. All three players were blue criminal status by this stage and was expecting concord backup and tried to shield tank my procurer. By my understanding I needed to wait 25 seconds from when they started attacking my tractor units for the concord. I lasted a full minute with no backup and ejected from my procurer to save my clone which I just got away from being warp scrambled again.

Can someone please help me understand what happened?

2014.01.08 08:48:00

Victim: Rhonan Irwin
Corp: Imperial Academy
Alliance: Unknown
Faction: Unknown
Destroyed: Procurer
System: Warouh
Security: 0.5
Damage Taken: 20570

Involved parties:

Name: Tul Breetai (laid the final blow)
Security: 0.70
Corp: Impromptu Asset Requisition
Alliance: Insurance Fraud.
Faction: None
Ship: Venture
Weapon: Small Focused Pulse Laser II
Damage Done: 10677

Name: Dieter Rams
Security: -0.7
Corp: The Nommo
Alliance: Insurance Fraud.
Faction: None
Ship: Tristan
Weapon: Hobgoblin I
Damage Done: 9893
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#2 - 2014-01-08 09:38:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
By attacking the group who were attacking the MTUs, you flagged yourself as available for PvP.

The cops looked the other way.

Can mining is a terrible idea, yo.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ssoraszh Tzarszh
Mellivora Nulla Irrumabo
#3 - 2014-01-08 09:38:53 UTC
You got into a fight when you 'defended' your tractor unit. Thus you were in a 15 minute 'allow to be shot up' countdown to those players via the fleet mechanic is my guess.

Concord will not intervene if you flag yourself to people for combat.
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#4 - 2014-01-08 09:40:26 UTC
They attacked your tractor thingy which allowed you to attack them which in turn allowed them to defend themselves from you.

Concord doesn't care about the new deployable units.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#5 - 2014-01-08 09:40:43 UTC
Shooting an MTU does not invoke Concord.

It is a misunderstanding of aggression mechanics.

You got baited and you took the bait.

If you don't mind me asking, what is the purpose of the MTU when you're mining?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2014-01-08 09:41:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Kagura Nikon
Rhonan Irwin wrote:
I want to discuss something I had happen to me today in Eve. I was mining an Icicle belt in Warouh which is 0.5 security space when I had a Venture and another player that was not recorded in my logs attack my two deployed mobile tractor units. This gave them a criminal status as it was an unprovoked attack with no permission of a duel given. I defended my tractor unit with my drones and got the unrecorded player to retreat from bad damage with no shots put onto my Procurer.

I was then attacked by the other two ships that are recorded in the battle log below. All three players were blue criminal status by this stage and was expecting concord backup and tried to shield tank my procurer. By my understanding I needed to wait 25 seconds from when they started attacking my tractor units for the concord. I lasted a full minute with no backup and ejected from my procurer to save my clone which I just got away from being warp scrambled again.

Can someone please help me understand what happened?

2014.01.08 08:48:00

Victim: Rhonan Irwin
Corp: Imperial Academy
Alliance: Unknown
Faction: Unknown
Destroyed: Procurer
System: Warouh
Security: 0.5
Damage Taken: 20570

Involved parties:

Name: Tul Breetai (laid the final blow)
Security: 0.70
Corp: Impromptu Asset Requisition
Alliance: Insurance Fraud.
Faction: None
Ship: Venture
Weapon: Small Focused Pulse Laser II
Damage Done: 10677

Name: Dieter Rams
Security: -0.7
Corp: The Nommo
Alliance: Insurance Fraud.
Faction: None
Ship: Tristan
Weapon: Hobgoblin I
Damage Done: 9893



workign as intended. When you fire at ANYONE.. for any reason.. no matter if you have right to shoto at him, he gains the right to shoot back at you as well.

BTW, no need to eject ship to save pod. Just select a celestial and start t o click a lot and fast on the warp button when you are about to die. When you die you will likely have aqueued warp order form the previous secodn that will make you warp almost instantaneously. VERY VERY VERY hard to catch in high sec.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#7 - 2014-01-08 09:42:08 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
By attacking the group who were attacking the MTUs, you flagged yourself as available for PvP.


Be careful with that statement McCandless. Logging on to Eve flags you for PvP.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#8 - 2014-01-08 09:42:44 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Shooting an MTU does not invoke Concord.

It is a misunderstanding of aggression mechanics.

You got baited and you took the bait.

If you don't mind me asking, what is the purpose of the MTU when you're mining?


They use it like miners used to use Jetcans.

Only MTU has a tractor to suck up jetcans.

MTU for CSM.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#9 - 2014-01-08 09:44:08 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
By attacking the group who were attacking the MTUs, you flagged yourself as available for PvP.


Be careful with that statement McCandless. Logging on to Eve flags you for PvP.


Ok Chan(? Are we in Public School, whats with the surnames? just curious), but you know what I meant, it flags you for CONSEXUAL PvP

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Rhonan Irwin
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2014-01-08 09:44:30 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Shooting an MTU does not invoke Concord.

It is a misunderstanding of aggression mechanics.

You got baited and you took the bait.

If you don't mind me asking, what is the purpose of the MTU when you're mining?


The MTU's were deployed for Icicle collection the be collected by myself after I filled them it creates a more profitable way of mining.



I guess what your all saying is I should of returned my drones to drone bay and waited them out?
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#11 - 2014-01-08 09:44:59 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Shooting an MTU does not invoke Concord.

It is a misunderstanding of aggression mechanics.

You got baited and you took the bait.

If you don't mind me asking, what is the purpose of the MTU when you're mining?


They use it like miners used to use Jetcans.

Only MTU has a tractor to suck up jetcans.

MTU for CSM.


Ah I see. They flipped his can and he shot at them.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#12 - 2014-01-08 09:47:11 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
(? Are we in Public School, whats with the surnames? just curious)


My apologies Ramona. I thought you'd prefer to be called by your clan name.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#13 - 2014-01-08 09:47:33 UTC
Rhonan Irwin wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Shooting an MTU does not invoke Concord.

It is a misunderstanding of aggression mechanics.

You got baited and you took the bait.

If you don't mind me asking, what is the purpose of the MTU when you're mining?


The MTU's were deployed for Icicle collection the be collected by myself after I filled them it creates a more profitable way of mining.



I guess what your all saying is I should of returned my drones to drone bay and waited them out?


Pretty much.

Im not a fan of the mechanic, but it does make sense to be fair.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#14 - 2014-01-08 09:48:44 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
(? Are we in Public School, whats with the surnames? just curious)


My apologies Ramona. I thought you'd prefer to be called by your clan name.



No need to apologise, its perfectly fine :)

And yeah, he got can-flipped

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Bael Malefic
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-01-08 09:49:35 UTC
They shoot MTU.

They get flagged for anyone to shoot.

You shoot them.

They can now shoot you in self defence...no CONCORD.

Harsh, but as far as I understand it, the aggression mechanics are in this case working as designed.
Rhonan Irwin
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2014-01-08 09:50:49 UTC
Not really that fair without being able to defend yourself and being ganged up on the MTU's are about 8 million each plus cargo.
They should be like secure cargo containers in they are attacked
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#17 - 2014-01-08 09:54:34 UTC
Rhonan Irwin wrote:
Not really that fair without being able to defend yourself and being ganged up on the MTU's are about 8 million each plus cargo.
They should be like secure cargo containers in they are attacked


They should be cloaked so no one can target them.

They should be indestructible so no one would bother.

They should be...

They're not. Where was your hauler when all of this was going on?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#18 - 2014-01-08 09:54:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Rhonan Irwin wrote:
Not really that fair without being able to defend yourself and being ganged up on the MTU's are about 8 million each plus cargo.
They should be like secure cargo containers in they are attacked



But you can defend yourself. Thats sort of the point. They attack it, they get aggressed, you are allowed to counterattack.

But I think you mean CONCORD should do the work for you, and thats not their purpose Im afraid.

They were made like they are for amny reasons, one of which is that while they are useful in mining, it should encourage you to fly with escorts.

Alternatively, one of your corpmates using an orca.

Alternatively, just fly back and unload.

You arent.... afk mining... are you?

Cos that would be silly.

EDIT: I wouldnt prefer them to be as small as a secure container in return for immunity.

MTU for CSM: Its the sensible choice for a Happier New Eden

EDIT EDIT: Why cant you just pull it in when they turn up? Then all you risk losing is some ore?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Nami Kumamato
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2014-01-08 09:59:04 UTC
Excerpt from the Galactic Regulations on Capsuleer-Deployable Mobile Structures :

Chap. 2 Sect. A
CONCORD will not, and may not be called upon to, defend, safeguard or take any protective stance regarding the Capsuleer-deployed Mobile Structures such as, but not limited to, Mobile Tractor Units, Siphoning Units and Mobile Depots.
The operational safety of the Structure and the protection of the New Eden civilian personnel assigned to these Structures falls solely under the responsibility of the anchoring Capsuleer.
Capsuleers are allowed to defend their property, however no CONCORD assistance will be provided and subsequent requests to aid against the aggressors will be ignored.

Fornicate The Constabulary !
Rhonan Irwin
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2014-01-08 10:00:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhonan Irwin
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Rhonan Irwin wrote:
Not really that fair without being able to defend yourself and being ganged up on the MTU's are about 8 million each plus cargo.
They should be like secure cargo containers in they are attacked



But you can defend yourself. Thats sort of the point. They attack it, they get aggressed, you are allowed to counterattack.

But I think you mean CONCORD should do the work for you, and thats not their purpose Im afraid.

They were made like they are for amny reasons, one of which is that while they are useful in mining, it should encourage you to fly with escorts.

Alternatively, one of your corpmates using an orca.

Alternatively, just fly back and unload.

You arent.... afk mining... are you?

Cos that would be silly.

EDIT: I wouldnt prefer them to be as small as a secure container in return for immunity.

MTU for CSM: Its the sensible choice for a Happier New Eden

EDIT EDIT: Why cant you just pull it in when they turn up? Then all you risk losing is some ore?


I responded to the attack on the MTU's within 5 seconds. Playing a second game at the same time is my only crime and Eve is always on my primary screen to see any change in game. I never afk mine.
Most of the time I am with a fleet but this was one of those exceptions.

What happened to discussing rather than making this hostile?
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