Intergalactic Summit

The vast majority of Amarrians feel not a shred of remorse or shame over the Starkmanir, or the Matari in general? Is that supposed to be a "logical argument" or a provable and verifiable fact? I know I certainly don't recall ever receiving a survey or having to speak with some civil servant taking note of the opinions. I'm also willing to bet you haven't met the vast majority of Amarrians, so please do not try to speak about their emotional state regarding, well, anything.

Of course I suppose it must be obvious to you that if we aren't out in the streets and plazas picketing and protesting while waving signs around, that Amarrians do not have any disagreements with the processes of their governance. Because I know the one thing I've noticed from the militant libertarian Gallenteans that I've met, is that if people aren't staging massive organized protests then their methods of showing displeasure are entirely wrong.

As for my supposed naivety and delicate sensibilities... I hardly think it is unfair or improper to try and caution people to avoid blatantly racist and entirely inaccurate statements such as: "All Amarrians are sheep following an imaginary shepard." Or, "All Gallenteans wear clothing better suited to covering left over dishes of food than to actually consider it a garment." Now I'm sure some people might view a single cautionary suggestion to try and remain accurate and polite as some sort of sign of weakness and frailty, and there is really nothing I can do to change that perception. However, I believe my earlier point still stands. That is, resorting to insults and generalizations undermine any serious discussion more than they support it. That said, I do have to admit you are right about one thing. I do indeed have a low opinion of a great many of the Amarrian Holders and Capsuleers that I've met.

Again, I do not think it is unreasonable to ask someone to be specific in their arguments. Given that in the whole of this thread you haven't made one actually accurate absolutist statement about Amarrians, I find it perfectly acceptable to speak up and challenge the false generalizations. Is it too difficult to specify things like "of the Amarrians I've met" or "the Loyalist Amarrian capsuleers" or is it simply more convenient for propaganda purposes to paint an entire people with the same brush so that when the times comes, the lauded free-thinking and democratic-minded people of the Federation can blindly rally against the latest enemy churned out by the Federal propaganda machine? Regardless, please either be specific, as anyone in a relatively decent discussion would be, or simply admit to being a racist.

Now as for the idea of the various ways that people have proven God does not exist. Show me this scientifically credible proof, please. All I keep seeing are the "logical arguments" being held up as proof that no God can exist, and while a logical train of thought is indeed valuable, it is hardly acceptable as the sole method of saying something can or cannot exist scientifically. Further, simply because something is logical doesn't mean it is scientifically accurate. Anyone who has studied physics on the quantum level can point out examples of particles that, logically, should not act the way they do.

Pretty much everything that you object to about the Empire are not crimes.

According to your laws, maybe.

According to any laws that count, no.

I'm waiting to see Rodj's response to this before I post my own...

Aidonis must be spinning in his grave.

The Yulai convention was signed after those events.






Have the Minmatar, Gallente or Caldari governments lodged official complaints with the administration in Yulai? Because until they do (and until the Empire is found to be in breach of the convention) your claim is meaningless.

Of course, the reason the Gallente and Minmatar governments haven't complained could be because they know that the Empire has done nothing wrong.

I was waiting for you to say something like that.

It is a documented fact that the following actions have either been condoned or directly perpetrated by the Amarrian Empire.

1) Unprovoked invasion of sovreign space under the jurisdiction of a foreign power.
2) Adbuction of Minmatar citizens and blatant disregard for the rights thereof.
3) Genocide, in specific reference to the Starkmanir tribe, and illegal occupation of territory belonging to same.
4) Violation of the Yulai Convention, to which the Empire is a signee, in the form of human-rights abuses as outlined below.
5) Violation of Republic law in conducting the above-noted unprovoked invasion and taking aggressive action against citizens of the Republic.
6) Mistreatment of captives, in violation of the above Convention, including but not limited to:

Slavery
Assault
Starvation

Regardless of when it was signed, the Empire signed the Yulai Convention, and it can't simply back out and say 'We didn't mean it'.

Actually, quite often, they do apply retroactively, and as Astrid has pointed out, the Amarrians signed that treaty. They can't unsign it. Either they signed it in good faith and are accountable for their past and continuing actions against the Federation, the Republic and the State, or they didn't sign it in good faith and are not entitled to its protections.

And this still doesn't address the fact that everything the Amarrians did was a violation of the sovereignty of the Old Minmatar Empire, and was thus illegal.

I notice you still haven't addressed the fact that the actions your Empire took and continues to take are violations of Minmatar law.

Point me to any court that would agree that an unprovoked invasion is at all legal. Show me the law that supports slavery, or assault, or disregard for the laws of your host nation.

When you can do that, you'll have a case to support your alleged 'innocence'.