EVE General Discussion

Thanks for a non-hysterical or insulting post. A refreshing change.

I have one 8 years old, but I've only actually /played about 9 months or so, fyi. Still pretty new. And each time I come back, I have to re-learn stuff.

I can appreciate your sentiment about transient players. There is merit to this, and I believe I have tried to be respectful of the existing core game. The thing is, I would rather have not felt the need to move and take multi-year breaks. I would rather have *wanted* to stay because Eve was the most fun and interesting game out there. It stands out among the crowd because of it's sci-fi nature, it's sandbox, and it's single shard (despite how woefully inadequate it is performance-wise).

I do not agree that making modest changes to highsec, providing a safer (not 100%!!) environment for people who do not consider it fun to be constantly in danger of getting killed, will break the game. There is a HUGE market out there (i.e. money) for PvE enthusiasts. For people who love PvP, but not open-world killing.

More players will not break Eve. Safer highsec will not break Eve. Changing Eve will not break Eve. There is still Null space and null sec where hard-core "pvp" players can find all the fun they can handle. Isn't there more low/nullsec than highsec? There are all kinds of ways to reach this goal. I suggested things like lowering the response time of Concord as low-hanging fruit. I'm sure experienced players can come up with really interesting solutions. But in the end, it all comes down to whether or not it is in Eve's best interest to attract more new, long-term players to the game, and how to do that. Making Eve a little more PvE friendly seems a good way to do that.

The only point I have made ( and continue to make) is....

Why must CCP do your thinking for you?

EVERY other profession in EvE requires thought to avoid catastrpophic loss.

WHY must mining be a protected profession?

The tools already exist to have a life free from the fear of small gang ganking, what more do you want?

Honestly. the allure of this game is that you are constantly in danger of getting killed. Hi sec is "safe enough". If not 100%, then what percent safe would make you stop clamoring for more changes, more nerfs, more safety? The answer is there isn't. Literally thousands of people get along just fine in high sec. I've played this game almost 6 years and have never been unshipped in high sec by another player. The vocal minority, of which you have decided to crusade for, are not interested in what is good for the other thousands of players in this game. Their only interest is what makes their game more fun. There is a market for PvE enthusiasts and it is filled to the busted seams with other games that these people can go to play and not be constantly in danger of being killed. Go have your version of fun!



Do you know why there is PvP in high sec? Because that is where the targets are. PvP players don't have to go to Null sec to find all the fun they can handle because PvP happens E V E R Y W H E R E. Safer highsec will not break Eve FOR YOU. But for others it does. What the hell gives you the right to tell people that pay the same sub as you what you believe they have the privilege of doing?

If you honestly can't play the game with it's mechanics as they are then stop playing the game. Alternatively, if you want a strictly PvE Eve experience, logon to Singularity. There are typically less than 100 people online and you can mine to your hearts content. You can mine AFK. You don't even need a permit. There is your PvE paradise now go forth and prosper.

Every other 'profession' except trading involves combat. Therefore people are flying combat ships designed for... combat. The tools to make a non-combat ship less attractive to a gank crew simutaneously makes the non-combat ship less effective at it's desired role.

Would you fit a few probe launchers to run combat missions? Expanded cargohold's in faction warfare? No, because it would make you less effective at your 'profession'. Mining is already too boring (really should be an NPC 'companion' job, i.e. passive like research points), and some people like to do it as little as possible. This means being as efficient as possible.

Dang. Maybe I should just advocate for a change to make mining passive like research points.... hmm... Every other thing you do you can do in a ship prepared for combat with no real loss of effectiveness.

Every combat ship fit makes a balance between survivability and effectiveness at its role, a hauler fit does the same, what makes a mining barge different?

Found it!

This is why minerbumping exists.

This is why ganking exists.

This is why mining permits exist.

Because a small minority of can't be bothered to fit my ship properly, AFKing, whining, carebear, PvE enthusiast players continue to demand "one more nerf".

Honestly, I have no problem with a miner who chooses not to fit their ship properly.

I have no problem with a miner that chooses to AFK while mining.

I have no problem with PvE enthusiasts being a PvE enthusiast myself.

I have a cataclysmically huge problem with people complaining because the mechanics, while they generally fit every persons playstyle, don't ALWAYS fit every persons playstyle. That that guy over theres playstyle is interfering with YOUR playstyle. And in those ever present and ever self-indulged threads, they demand in one helpless, alone, and vulnerable voice, "One more nerf!"

You going to answer my counter-points to your statements or continue to ignore it when someone makes points that undercut your argument?

In your opinion it isn't PvP, in mine it is PvP, it involves 2 or more players in a timed fight, one is fighting to survive long enough for the timer to run out, the others are trying to kill the victim before the timer runs out.

Highsec is where the targets are, it's as simple as that.

Define true PvP for us please?
Why shouldn't highsec dwellers be prepared for it? Highsec is a target rich environment, people go to where the targets are
Congratulations, you just defined traditional piracy, albeit in a new setting. Despite their hollywood good press, pirates traditionally attacked merchant and supply shipping, if something was capable of giving a good fight they generally gave it a miss. Also please explain how people can't fight back, it's normally that they can, but they won't.

They are frequently found fighting people who won't fight back.

You need to be careful about the use of the word can't in your last sentence. There is literally nothing stopping anyone from fighting back. They just won't (not can't).

Ganking is PvP. It pits one or more players against one or more other players. The fact that one or more of these players won't (not can't) fit according and instead chooses to lie down and get killed does not magically make this something other than PvP. Admittedly, I find it silly that you continue to argue this point on the condition that everyone else accepts your misguided definitions of stuff.

Exploring: Buzzard. Armament: None
Salvaging: Any Destoryer with tractors and salvager Armament: None
Noob Training: Any ship, Armament: Variable
Cynoalting: Any noob ship, Armament: None
Courier: Transport, Armament: none

How is there fighting in these professions?
And apart from the Destroyer, how are they designed for combat?

And please, AGAIN can you tell me how SHIELDS make a PROCURER less good at MINING