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EVE is PVE
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Knights Armament
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#281 - 2014-01-06 15:26:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Knights Armament
If you give the carebears an inch, they try to take 3 miles. We must stop carebears, even if that means killing every employee at EA/Blizzard/Activision/Apple. We will program a virus to destroy the carebears, when biology 5 finishes training, you have been warned.

Click here to get something special for new players, an EvE Trial Invitation extremely rare, high quality.
Luwc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#282 - 2014-01-06 15:30:45 UTC
So ?
I mean I really dont get your butthurt post.
Why ?
Whats the point ?

http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif
Chirjo Durruti
Doomheim
#283 - 2014-01-06 15:41:34 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:


I get to PICK when to PvP.


Then why are you playing a game that has (as one of it's corner stones) NON-CONSENSUAL PVP?

This is what I was talking about when I said people like you make bad choices. Non-consensual pvp didn't just happen in EVE, it was a founding principle. If you don't like one of the core founding principles of EVE, why do you play EVE?

Easy:
1. it's a Science Fiction themed game
2. I can build/collect stuff in it
3. I can easily show this stuff to others.
4. despite it's army of sociopaths and paranoiacs, there are nice people in EvE and i like meeting them.

I don't play EvE because it has non-consensual pvp (regardless of how much of a corner stone you think it is), I play it because it's a scifi themed sandbox MMO.

When I do PvP, I do it because I have to in order to defend the stuff i built/collected.

HOWTO: No More Tears (solo) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdA4ciUrH-k If you can get me a better crew than THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPrtQ9AdoM0 convo me.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#284 - 2014-01-06 15:51:04 UTC
Chirjo Durruti wrote:
When I do PvP, I do it because I have to in order to defend the stuff i built/collected.


And that's the ballgame folks!

You don't have to PvP all the time. But you are in a PvP environment all the time and defending your **** is a reasonable response to this.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#285 - 2014-01-06 16:07:56 UTC
Chirjo Durruti wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:


I get to PICK when to PvP.


Then why are you playing a game that has (as one of it's corner stones) NON-CONSENSUAL PVP?

This is what I was talking about when I said people like you make bad choices. Non-consensual pvp didn't just happen in EVE, it was a founding principle. If you don't like one of the core founding principles of EVE, why do you play EVE?

Easy:
1. it's a Science Fiction themed game
2. I can build/collect stuff in it
3. I can easily show this stuff to others.
4. despite it's army of sociopaths and paranoiacs, there are nice people in EvE and i like meeting them.

I don't play EvE because it has non-consensual pvp (regardless of how much of a corner stone you think it is), I play it because it's a scifi themed sandbox MMO.

When I do PvP, I do it because I have to in order to defend the stuff i built/collected.


And good for you. But you miss the point.

No one said pvp was all EVE has, I said "EVe has non-consensual pvp" meaning pvp can happen to you anywhere anytime unlike in other games where pvp can only happen is you allow it or in certain "zones" (or in certain servers).

If you don't like (or are at least able to accept) the concept of non-consensual pvp, EVE is an astoundingly bad choice of game. it would be like playing soccer iof you were allergic to both grass and the stuff soccer balls are made out of lol.

The people complaining about gankers are making a bad choice by playing EVE. They should be playing a game that only has consensual pvp (or no pvp at all) instead of coming here and complaining about something is vital to the game (non-consensual pvp).

Then again it's probably dumb to expect the same people who have a hard time taking responsibility for their real lives to take responsibility for their gameplay choices lol. Not directed at you Chirjo, I'm saying 'in general'.
Moneta Curran
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#286 - 2014-01-06 16:12:30 UTC
Whatever.

As long as we still get to ruin the OP's and like-minded individuals' day by destroying their assets, all is good in Eve.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#287 - 2014-01-06 16:41:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
It's a sad day when people of the type who, when they were children, would have taken a magnifying glass to ants, are applauded for their embrace of the rules of the game and resistance against changes.


I preferred punching babies, so being a suicide ganker in a computer game is obviously what I was going to fit in to based on my preferred childhood activity.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#288 - 2014-01-06 16:44:10 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
It's a sad day when people of the type who, when they were children, would have taken a magnifying glass to ants, are applauded for their embrace of the rules of the game and resistance against changes.

Ah yes, the old "gankers tortured animals as children and grew up to become delinquents, drug users, rapists, murderers, and thieves in real life while they're not playing EVE."

(Well I guess the drug users thing is certainly true for some of us at least.)


I resent that statement. When I started playing EVE I was a miner & loved the hell out of that profession... Then I stopped taking drugs.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Yonis Kador
KADORCORP
#289 - 2014-01-06 17:20:39 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

EVERYTHING in EVE is a pvp activity. As a PVE player, I succeed because i understand this.


Kimmi Chan wrote:

I'm a hi-sec mission runner and I am fed up with everyone coming to these forums to demand changes to suit their AND ONLY THEIR style of play.


And I'm a high-sec miner, happily engaging in industry/market pvp since 2008.

Isn't it noteworthy that amidst all this static, it's other hi sec / pve players defending gankers' rights?

ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
This one wants to raise the bar to entry for ganking so that fewer PvE players have to deal with un-fun activities in a GAME they play.


No. What you want is to turn the virtually lawless dystopia we all know and love into the Federation of Planets. Pandas in space. Unfortunately, this is not Star Trek and you are not on the bridge of the Enterprise. You are in Orion Syndicate space here (or Mos Eisely if you prefer a star wars reference) and you should never let your guard down. The danger is part of the lure.

So when we see things like:

ZynnLee Akkori wrote:

"I enjoy the game too, just not the part that puts me at risk of sociopathic aggression"

or

"... jerks bought them all out and re-listed at inflated prices. So CCP had to put multiple thousands on the market to discourage asshat flippers."


or

"...I love the PvE part of the game, but dislike getting ganked while having fun. Notice the separation there? Ganking is not fun."


we (even other hi sec / pve players) recognize someone who is trying to make EVE into something it is not, instead of adapting to and reveling in what it is. Because like many who have come before you and who have since either adapted or moved on we have seen this argument 1000x and already know that:

ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
In contrast, in Eve, I have to reduce my effectiveness at making ISK (which allows me to continue to play) to make it a little bit harder for people to gank me.


is the real issue here. I just can't believe you actually wrote it.

YK
Rumtin
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#290 - 2014-01-07 07:03:37 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Frankly there is no need for "honor", it's supposed to be piracy, not chivalry.

Perhaps saying there is a lack of ambition is more apt to define ganking.

Gankers tend to be pretty ambitious, but of course, nowhere near as ambitious as the mission runners & miners who aspire to do nothing & want zero contact with people.

CCP can make that come true.



Why even bother playing an Online MMO then? Why not just play a single player game?

Face facts, EvE is a game where you WILL interact with other members of the community, whether that interaction is deemed good or bad depends on the players themselves. If someone has a problem with that, then they should re-think the game they choose to play.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#291 - 2014-01-07 07:09:43 UTC
Rumtin wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Frankly there is no need for "honor", it's supposed to be piracy, not chivalry.

Perhaps saying there is a lack of ambition is more apt to define ganking.

Gankers tend to be pretty ambitious, but of course, nowhere near as ambitious as the mission runners & miners who aspire to do nothing & want zero contact with people.

CCP can make that come true.



Why even bother playing an Online MMO then? Why not just play a single player game?

Face facts, EvE is a game where you WILL interact with other members of the community, whether that interaction is deemed good or bad depends on the players themselves. If someone has a problem with that, then they should re-think the game they choose to play.


CCP needs to make this game 100% safe for people that don't want to participate in PvP or they will go out of business.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Rumtin
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#292 - 2014-01-07 10:36:18 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Rumtin wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Deunan Tenephais wrote:
Frankly there is no need for "honor", it's supposed to be piracy, not chivalry.

Perhaps saying there is a lack of ambition is more apt to define ganking.

Gankers tend to be pretty ambitious, but of course, nowhere near as ambitious as the mission runners & miners who aspire to do nothing & want zero contact with people.

CCP can make that come true.



Why even bother playing an Online MMO then? Why not just play a single player game?

Face facts, EvE is a game where you WILL interact with other members of the community, whether that interaction is deemed good or bad depends on the players themselves. If someone has a problem with that, then they should re-think the game they choose to play.


CCP needs to make this game 100% safe for people that don't want to participate in PvP or they will go out of business.


Haha, right. 10+ years running and only NOW were going to go out of business unless we change.
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#293 - 2014-01-07 13:13:28 UTC
Ok, here goes,

I lost my first mining barge just after I was able to afford it, ganked in .5 by a catalyst.

I lost my second in a wormhole.

One made me feel like crap.

The other felt like a fair kill, kudos to the pilot.

The difference?

That's the question isn't it.

Non consentual PvP is not in itself a problem.

However There is no way of engaging in PvP with a disposable alt, no bounty hunters can be effective, no ganking the ganker, no hunt, no consequences for him.

In a wormhole or LS/null a barge can be a victim or bait or the start of a chain of consequences.

In HS it is simply mining victims

Cost of assets to gank vs reward ( loot or suffering)

HS Ganking as commonly occurs, is simply using other players for ones own benefit and adds NOTHING to the value of the game.

The only anti ganking defence is to increase the cost to destroy the target to make it uneconomic.

Ganking is fine.

Ganking without consequences is not.

Using disposable alts to avoid consequences should be considered an exploit. And treated as such.






There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#294 - 2014-01-07 13:16:40 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Using disposable alts to avoid consequences should be considered an exploit. And treated as such.


It is.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#295 - 2014-01-07 13:24:09 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


However There is no way of engaging in PvP with a disposable alt, no bounty hunters can be effective, no ganking the ganker, no hunt, no consequences for him.



Your solution seems to require retribution.

The common solution is to tank your proc so heavily that the amount of catas that would be required to shatter it would be unfeasibly large.

Every time a failed gank explodes from CONCORD because he cant get throught your shields, you win and he loses.

Its an inconvenience to him (he has to get back to where his catas are and he has to live with failing to gank), he's aggroed and you have Kill Rights.

Now, you may not consider kill rights to be a problem or an inconvenience but judging by the experiences of friends of mine, the gankers themselves often pay each other for KRs when they need them cleared, and so the original victim makes the money.

I mean, it is an inconvenience to launch with your next cata only to get killed by KR hunters, isnt it? And they do exist. Trust me.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#296 - 2014-01-07 13:26:38 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Using disposable alts to avoid consequences should be considered an exploit. And treated as such.


It is.



Possibly someone should remind CCP? They seem to have forgotten. Or at least do not seem to have their eye on the ball.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#297 - 2014-01-07 13:30:32 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Ramona McCandless wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


However There is no way of engaging in PvP with a disposable alt, no bounty hunters can be effective, no ganking the ganker, no hunt, no consequences for him.



Your solution seems to require retribution.

The common solution is to tank your proc so heavily that the amount of catas that would be required to shatter it would be unfeasibly large.

Every time a failed gank explodes from CONCORD because he cant get throught your shields, you win and he loses.

Its an inconvenience to him (he has to get back to where his catas are and he has to live with failing to gank), he's aggroed and you have Kill Rights.

Now, you may not consider kill rights to be a problem or an inconvenience but judging by the experiences of friends of mine, the gankers themselves often pay each other for KRs when they need them cleared, and so the original victim makes the money.

I mean, it is an inconvenience to launch with your next cata only to get killed by KR hunters, isnt it? And they do exist. Trust me.



Totally agree, if there are consequences to Ganking, I have absolutely no problem with it.

I did actually point all this this out in my post, kill rights etc are excellent, just no use against all the disposable alts.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#298 - 2014-01-07 13:48:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Using disposable alts to avoid consequences should be considered an exploit. And treated as such.


It is.



Possibly someone should remind CCP? They seem to have forgotten. Or at least do not seem to have their eye on the ball.

CCP haven't forgotten, 99% of gank alts aren't disposable, most of them are either a dedicated specifically trained alt or repurposed surplus character on an existing account, or they have their own account.

Biomassing a character to avoid neg sec status is an exploit, gankers either live with being KoS in highsec because of their sec status, or they keep grinding on the character to keep their sec status acceptable to the faction navy.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#299 - 2014-01-07 14:20:27 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:


Totally agree, if there are consequences to Ganking, I have absolutely no problem with it.

I did actually point all this this out in my post, kill rights etc are excellent, just no use against all the disposable alts.



Try it this way:

Assuming I agree that its all "disposable alts" (which I dont but thats not the point)....

Surely if you consitantly tank properly, no umber of these disposable alts will get you and the ganking will stop.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Percival Rose
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#300 - 2014-04-01 22:17:38 UTC
Dorian Wylde wrote:
People need to get it through their heads that EVE is both, not one or the other. The mere fact that thousand of people engage in both is proof enough. If EVE were just pvp, I wouldn't be mining and ratting right now.

I believe EVE is both a PvE and a PvP game. Non-consensual PvP, however, is unavoidable. I discovered that the hard way.

EVE is what you make of it, but needs both elements. It's such an amazing game because of that.

Do you know who's going to inherit New Eden? Arms dealers. Because everyone else is too busy killing each other.