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Had this part of the ToS highlighted to me by a GM - Thanks :)

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Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2014-01-06 20:14:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Prie Mary
rule 16 of the ToS:

"You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world."

The first sentence is far far far too open to a individuals perception.

You could turn this around to make many game mechanics seem as if they are against the ToS.


  1. Bumping a ship - your stopping a person from warping - pretty sure that interferes with someone's ability "to enjoy the game"

  2. Scamming - basically stealing someone's ISK - pretty sure that interferes with someone's ability "to enjoy the game"

  3. War deccing a pve corp - pretty sure that interferes with someone's ability "to enjoy the game"

  4. Engaging random people in PVP - without prior consent -pretty sure that interferes with someone's ability "to enjoy the game"

  5. Anchoring a warp bubble to kill people in 0.0 - pretty sure that interferes with someone's ability "to enjoy the game"

  6. Camping people in a station - pretty sure that interferes with someone's ability "to enjoy the game"



You could really sit here all night and list things with the certainty that it would at least reduce someone's ability to enjoy the game.


My point is, GM's and ISD are given far too much power with the ToS/EULA being open like this.

Lets be honest, its only human to have favourites......

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-01-06 20:17:29 UTC
You're right, it's badly worded. Let's just cut out that sentence altogether.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#3 - 2014-01-06 20:28:23 UTC
Neat.


This will also end well.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#4 - 2014-01-06 20:31:41 UTC
My Magic Crystal Ball is telling me this thread may be locked due to discussing GM communications.
Kryptik Kai
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2014-01-06 20:34:16 UTC
This is going to get locked anyway but...

you seem to have glossed over the "in accordance with its rules" part.

None of your examples are against the rules, so no problem.

Whatever you did was against the rules, so theres a problem.

Not so vague.

"Shiny.  Lets be bad guys." -Jayne Cobb
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-01-06 20:34:51 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
My Magic Crystal Ball is telling me this thread may be locked due to discussing GM communications.



I have not discussed the conversation or event so I cant see why it would.


I do however call upon ANYBODY loosing a ship.. be it in 0.0 or empire to file petitions as under this current ToS many circumstances in which you die might be effecting your ability to enjoy the game, and should entitle you to a reimbursement.

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2014-01-06 20:35:37 UTC
Kryptik Kai wrote:
This is going to get locked anyway but...

you seem to have glossed over the "in accordance with its rules" part.

None of your examples are against the rules, so no problem.

Whatever you did was against the rules, so theres a problem.

Not so vague.



The rules are not stated. As such there are no rules?

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
Digital Messiah
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-01-06 20:36:07 UTC
I hear that you get in trouble for trying to ruin a players ability to use the game as it was designed to be enjoyed. I also hear that competitive play versus other players that doesn't require any of the for mentioned actions listed. Can be quite enjoyable. Eve has been out for basically 11 years now. I am pretty sure CCP has a good idea on what griefing is...

Something clever
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#9 - 2014-01-06 20:38:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Prie Mary wrote:
Stuff about the ToS, and then a list of more stuff
All of the things in your list are explicitly not exploits and are commonly accepted gameplay, therefore they're non EULA breaking, thus your point is moot.

If the ToS wasn't as open as it is you'd see a stagnation in the way people play, new gameplay comes from people using mechanics in new ways, a closed ToS would kill off this innovation.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#10 - 2014-01-06 20:38:29 UTC
Strike up the music, the merry-go-round is about to start up again!

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
kes88
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-01-06 20:40:24 UTC
Trolls ruin my enjoyment of the game...
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#12 - 2014-01-06 20:40:30 UTC
Digital Messiah wrote:
I hear that you get in trouble for trying to ruin a players ability to use the game as it was designed to be enjoyed. I also hear that competitive play versus other players that doesn't require any of the for mentioned actions listed. Can be quite enjoyable. Eve has been out for basically 11 years now. I am pretty sure CCP has a good idea on what griefing is...


"This includes, but is not limited to" The events listed after this quote are some but not all of the "rules". My point is rules and this entire section of the ToS is to open to an individuals (GM or ISD's) interpretation of the game.

What I call good fun, you might interoperate as "griefing"

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#13 - 2014-01-06 20:41:27 UTC
kes88 wrote:
Trolls ruin my enjoyment of the game...



no....you....didn't....Shocked

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-01-06 20:44:21 UTC
They keep the wording open, or purposely gray which, in my opinion, is a smart thing to do. It gives CCP the freedom to review its options on a case by case basis. And it keeps interwebz lawyers with Google or Wiki degrees at bay ;).

Successfully doinitwrong™ since 2006.
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-01-06 20:47:06 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
They keep the wording open, or purposely gray which, in my opinion, is a smart thing to do. It gives CCP the freedom to review its options on a case by case basis. And it keeps interwebz lawyers with Google or Wiki degrees at bay ;).


I did laugh at your last sentence Lol

The problem is, if the rules aren't clear how can we be expected to abide by them. A "joke" to one could be perceived as massive griefing and trolling by another.

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
Lady Areola Fappington
#16 - 2014-01-06 20:48:44 UTC
This may blow your mind, OP, but there's also a EULA clause that says CCP can terminate your account for any, or no reason at all.


EULA is not a "constitution" type agreement. EULAs are legal CYAs for the company employing them. Of course it's biased towards the protected company.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#17 - 2014-01-06 20:49:42 UTC
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:
They keep the wording open, or purposely gray which, in my opinion, is a smart thing to do. It gives CCP the freedom to review its options on a case by case basis. And it keeps interwebz lawyers with Google or Wiki degrees at bay ;).

Indeed. Getting over-specific is a great way to create nasty loopholes.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2014-01-06 20:51:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Cannibal Kane
It feels like it is Moron day today on the forums.

Normally that is the case everyday but today seems extra special.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#19 - 2014-01-06 21:01:47 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
My point is, GM's and ISD are given far too much power with the ToS/EULA being open like this.

Perhaps, but it allows them to apply the EULA to situations not specifically described by the EULA.

If the EULA states that doing "X" N-times in a row will get spanked, then you can bet people will do it N-1 times, which is still against the spirit of the rule.

You can always appeal their decisions, though chances are the appeal will fail.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#20 - 2014-01-06 21:31:53 UTC
The first rule of EULA/ToS club is that we don't talk about EULA/ToS club.

The second rule i [USER WAS BANNED FOR DISCUSSING FIRST RULE]

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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