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Interceptor Balance

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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#41 - 2014-01-06 12:53:39 UTC
goons wont whine about it, they are massively flying interceptors since that means less dead goons travelling around.
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2014-01-06 12:53:47 UTC
Malakai Asamov wrote:
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Wow, dude, really? Can you please try to post constructively?



Do you really want me to post constructively in a thread where you are crying because you cant kill an inty in your frig-death SFI anymore. or simply want to silence someone calling you out on what you really want? Because no matter how well you camouflage the thread with fits and words, it pretty much boils down to my last post.


What I really want is constructive conversation not witty comments like "what it really boils down to is you crying because you think i'm crying".


It wasn't even witty.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Cavalira
Habemus
#43 - 2014-01-06 14:04:40 UTC
Medium shield extenders. Ok.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2014-01-06 14:06:47 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Norm Tempesta wrote:
We have had some luck using sebo'ed-r'sebo'ed inties and destroyers on gates. Usually just catch two or three out of 10 though.


yeah properly fit interceptors warp almost instantly, you dont even have a chance to lock them.
Interceptors are broken.

Thanks, you just reminded me that I put an MSE II on my Malediction, and why this is probably not a good idea.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Taint Stain
Doomheim
#45 - 2014-01-06 15:07:46 UTC
I've specced out all the interceptors, the malediction is the only one that i feel is out of line, it is able to fit for instawarp and able to maintain combat effectiveness. I've spent serious time trying to kill this fit, and aside from getting them to fall for bait or smartbombing they're impossible to kill. The complete immunity to be tackled when warping off a gate is OP. More to the fact the malediction is suppost to be an armor ship and has an armor resist bonus but here we are with an lolwtf shield tank that exploits its low mass that it has been gifted for being armor.

The Untargetability of the ship is achieved through game mechanics by basically being faster than the server and the internet, i think the *best* way to balance this is to place a hardcap on the warp to align speed so its possible to catch these with a enough scan res and an average ping to TQ. If it takes a hardcapped stat on the entire interceptor class to balance the maladiction then so be it, it will force players to fit for more combat effectiveness as a whole as well as restore the risk / reward of flying the ship.

Example below is 1.95 align to warp speed, 1.75 with squad bonus and skirmish mindlink passive effect. 30km point and 42km missile range, with damage type selectable.

[Malediction, Broken]

3x Light Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile)

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II

2x Inertia Stabilizers II
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-01-06 15:22:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Tetsuo Tsukaya
Taint Stain wrote:
I've specced out all the interceptors, the malediction is the only one that i feel is out of line, it is able to fit for instawarp and able to maintain combat effectiveness. I've spent serious time trying to kill this fit, and aside from getting them to fall for bait or smartbombing they're impossible to kill. The complete immunity to be tackled when warping off a gate is OP. More to the fact the malediction is suppost to be an armor ship and has an armor resist bonus but here we are with an lolwtf shield tank that exploits its low mass that it has been gifted for being armor.

The Untargetability of the ship is achieved through game mechanics by basically being faster than the server and the internet, i think the *best* way to balance this is to place a hardcap on the warp to align speed so its possible to catch these with a enough scan res and an average ping to TQ. If it takes a hardcapped stat on the entire interceptor class to balance the maladiction then so be it, it will force players to fit for more combat effectiveness as a whole as well as restore the risk / reward of flying the ship.

Example below is 1.95 align to warp speed, 1.75 with squad bonus and skirmish mindlink passive effect. 30km point and 42km missile range, with damage type selectable.

[Malediction, Broken]

3x Light Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile)

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II

2x Inertia Stabilizers II
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I



lol, you are literally crying that a gimpy malediction that is fit specifically for avoiding gate camps can't be caught by gate camps. In light of all the good things that have come from the ceptor rebalance its a tough argument to make that they need to be nerfed to accommodate the exhilarating tactical possibilities presented to the remote seboed gate camping battle cruiser.

You should feel bad.
Taint Stain
Doomheim
#47 - 2014-01-06 15:46:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Taint Stain
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:


lol, you are literally crying that a gimpy malediction that is fit specifically for avoiding gate camps can't be caught by gate camps. In light of all the good things that have come from the ceptor rebalance its a tough argument to make that they need to be nerfed to accommodate the exhilarating tactical possibilities presented to the remote seboed gate camping battle cruiser.

You should feel bad.


6k+ scan res on an interceptor attempting to target an interceptor and the ship doesn't even attempt to lock cause the ship is already in warp in the 115ms it takes TQ to relay the information to your client.
Dakota Sage
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2014-01-06 15:51:15 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Taint Stain wrote:
I've specced out all the interceptors, the malediction is the only one that i feel is out of line, it is able to fit for instawarp and able to maintain combat effectiveness. I've spent serious time trying to kill this fit, and aside from getting them to fall for bait or smartbombing they're impossible to kill. The complete immunity to be tackled when warping off a gate is OP. More to the fact the malediction is suppost to be an armor ship and has an armor resist bonus but here we are with an lolwtf shield tank that exploits its low mass that it has been gifted for being armor.

The Untargetability of the ship is achieved through game mechanics by basically being faster than the server and the internet, i think the *best* way to balance this is to place a hardcap on the warp to align speed so its possible to catch these with a enough scan res and an average ping to TQ. If it takes a hardcapped stat on the entire interceptor class to balance the maladiction then so be it, it will force players to fit for more combat effectiveness as a whole as well as restore the risk / reward of flying the ship.

Example below is 1.95 align to warp speed, 1.75 with squad bonus and skirmish mindlink passive effect. 30km point and 42km missile range, with damage type selectable.

[Malediction, Broken]

3x Light Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile)

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II

2x Inertia Stabilizers II
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I



lol, you are literally crying that a gimpy malediction that is fit specifically for avoiding gate camps can't be caught by gate camps. In light of all the good things that have come from the ceptor rebalance its a tough argument to make that they need to be nerfed to accommodate the exhilarating tactical possibilities presented to the remote seboed gate camping battle cruiser.

You should feel bad.






http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=262697&m=1&y=2014


You should feel bad for not even taking the time to see what maledictions can do in groups, or pairs, so next time before you post anything, please research it.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#49 - 2014-01-06 16:01:45 UTC
Taint Stain wrote:
6k+ scan res on an interceptor attempting to target an interceptor and the ship doesn't even attempt to lock cause the ship is already in warp in the 115ms it takes TQ to relay the information to your client.


that is.. your client doesnt even start locking, since ship is already in warp as it appears on overview.
this is totally borked IMO.
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#50 - 2014-01-06 16:12:10 UTC
Dakota Sage wrote:
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Taint Stain wrote:
I've specced out all the interceptors, the malediction is the only one that i feel is out of line, it is able to fit for instawarp and able to maintain combat effectiveness. I've spent serious time trying to kill this fit, and aside from getting them to fall for bait or smartbombing they're impossible to kill. The complete immunity to be tackled when warping off a gate is OP. More to the fact the malediction is suppost to be an armor ship and has an armor resist bonus but here we are with an lolwtf shield tank that exploits its low mass that it has been gifted for being armor.

The Untargetability of the ship is achieved through game mechanics by basically being faster than the server and the internet, i think the *best* way to balance this is to place a hardcap on the warp to align speed so its possible to catch these with a enough scan res and an average ping to TQ. If it takes a hardcapped stat on the entire interceptor class to balance the maladiction then so be it, it will force players to fit for more combat effectiveness as a whole as well as restore the risk / reward of flying the ship.

Example below is 1.95 align to warp speed, 1.75 with squad bonus and skirmish mindlink passive effect. 30km point and 42km missile range, with damage type selectable.

[Malediction, Broken]

3x Light Missile Launcher II (Caldari Navy Inferno Light Missile)

Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I
Warp Disruptor II

2x Inertia Stabilizers II
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I



lol, you are literally crying that a gimpy malediction that is fit specifically for avoiding gate camps can't be caught by gate camps. In light of all the good things that have come from the ceptor rebalance its a tough argument to make that they need to be nerfed to accommodate the exhilarating tactical possibilities presented to the remote seboed gate camping battle cruiser.

You should feel bad.






http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=262697&m=1&y=2014


You should feel bad for not even taking the time to see what maledictions can do in groups, or pairs, so next time before you post anything, please research it.


The fact that 10 maledictions can kill a PVE fit drake has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that nobody should care about gate campers crying that they can't catch them. Their entire role is centred on mobility, being able to get into hostile systems with impunity is exactly the niche they are supposed to fill. This is balanced by the fact that if you tackle them on grid with any kind of DPS support they will melt.


Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#51 - 2014-01-06 16:22:47 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:

The fact that 10 maledictions can kill a PVE fit drake has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that nobody should care about gate campers crying that they can't catch them.


but, their great tackle ability doesnt justify their invincibility for safe, fast travel in 0.0 - this is simply OP.
Dakota Sage
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-01-06 16:28:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Dakota Sage
---"The fact that 10 maledictions can kill a PVE fit drake has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that nobody should care about gate campers crying that they can't catch them. Their entire role is centred on mobility, being able to get into hostile systems with impunity is exactly the niche they are supposed to fill. This is balanced by the fact that if you tackle them on grid with any kind of DPS support they will melt. "---






Really man? Are you kidding me?

A pair of ceptors should be able to kill poor afk ratters, kill other small combat things, sure i agree with this.

BUT when you cant even prevent them from moving around, it is OP, I want you to setup a malediction for "escaping" gate camps, then setup a few of your friends on the other side of a gate with a Claw ( the highest natural scan res ceptor ) and remote sensor boost it to hell and back, put as many remote sebo's on it you like, 10, 20, doesnt matter. Have your malediction jump in and hit warp, see if you are caught....

Answer? No, you are gone.

Now when those "gatecamp avoiding" ceptors come crashing by you and go feast things they want to fight, and you "have support for the ratters" , all they do is land on grid with a ratting boat, see it is a trap, and run away again.

NOTHING can catch them, they just roam around looking for a non-baited target and an easy gank.
Taint Stain
Doomheim
#53 - 2014-01-06 16:29:20 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:

The fact that 10 maledictions can kill a PVE fit drake has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that nobody should care about gate campers crying that they can't catch them. Their entire role is centred on mobility, being able to get into hostile systems with impunity is exactly the niche they are supposed to fill. This is balanced by the fact that if you tackle them on grid with any kind of DPS support they will melt.




Being able to get into hostile systems with impunity is one thing, staying around for 10 hours at a time because its impossible to catch is another one entirely.
seth Hendar
I love you miners
#54 - 2014-01-06 16:32:52 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
Robert Caldera wrote:
Taint Stain wrote:
6k+ scan res on an interceptor attempting to target an interceptor and the ship doesn't even attempt to lock cause the ship is already in warp in the 115ms it takes TQ to relay the information to your client.


that is.. your client doesnt even start locking, since ship is already in warp as it appears on overview.
this is totally borked IMO.

yup, this does happen for pods, shuttle, most frigs except armor buffer ones, even for a cynabal with a nano

and i do have a really good connection to TQ, around 30-50ms, yet those appears already in warp at +- 10km/s, meaning they are already in warp.

and my rig is also good enought, so nothing to say here (i7 2600k / ssd / 16GB / gtx 670)

the fact is that the server itself takes way to long to process the whole thing, meaning that by the time the server process your lock order, the tgt is already in warp.

in fact, it takes 2 srv ticks for pointing something (assuming a insane 6k insta lock on a massive tgt), 1 tick for the lock order, then next tick for the point(and this doesn't even take in count your latency and the delay needed by the game engine to make the ship appears on overview).

since srv tick is 1hz, this means that actually pointing anything able to enter warp under 2 sec is impossible unless the player screws up (align instead of warp / bubble) or smartbombs, and since intys are now invuln to bubble, if after crossing a gatein an inty the first order you give is a "warp to", physics says you won't be caught by any point.

this has been raised to CCP before rubicon hits, CCP's answer was more or less HTFU......
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#55 - 2014-01-06 16:39:55 UTC
Dakota Sage wrote:

Really man? Are you kidding me?

A pair of ceptors should be able to kill poor afk ratters, kill other small combat things, sure i agree with this.

BUT when you cant even prevent them from moving around, it is OP, I want you to setup a malediction for "escaping" gate camps, then setup a few of your friends on the other side of a gate with a Claw ( the highest natural scan res ceptor ) and remote sensor boost it to hell and back, put as many remote sebo's on it you like, 10, 20, doesnt matter. Have your malediction jump in and hit warp, see if you are caught....

Answer? No, you are gone.

Now when those "gatecamp avoiding" ceptors come crashing by you and go feast things they want to fight, and you "have support for the ratters" , all they do is land on grid with a ratting boat, see it is a trap, and run away again.

NOTHING can catch them, they just roam around looking for a non-baited target and an easy gank.


Oh sorry. When I said "their role is to be able to move around with impunity" and you pointed out that you can't catch them at gate camps, I totally see now how they don't fit their designed role and need to be nerfed...
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#56 - 2014-01-06 16:41:33 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:

Oh sorry. When I said "their role is to be able to move around with impunity" and you pointed out that you can't catch them at gate camps, I totally see now how they don't fit their designed role and need to be nerfed...


everything is this game has a purpose (not an argument), yet balance changes happen sometimes so it is needed for interceptors.
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#57 - 2014-01-06 16:44:47 UTC
Because you guys are too lazy to keep a single recon in your ratting constellation that would render the interceptors completely harmless?


"b-b-b-b-but we can't catch them!"
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#58 - 2014-01-06 16:47:56 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Because you guys are too lazy to keep a single recon in your ratting constellation that would render the interceptors completely harmless?

no, because people started using them massively as a better shuttle, for moving around in 0.0 while being almost completely untouchable.
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#59 - 2014-01-06 16:54:13 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Because you guys are too lazy to keep a single recon in your ratting constellation that would render the interceptors completely harmless?

no, because people started using them massively as a better shuttle, for moving around in 0.0 while being almost completely untouchable.


Seriously. This is your justification to wanting to get them nerfed? Because they let people move around? In a game with jump clones, Titan bridges, jump drives, death clones and interdiction nullified T3s?

Good luck with that.
Jarod Garamonde
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2014-01-06 16:54:46 UTC
OP needs to point at the teddy bear to show us where the interceptors touched him.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]