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EVE is PVE
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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#261 - 2014-01-06 14:03:19 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

tl;dr: gtfo

I enjoy the game too, just not the part that puts me at risk of sociopathic aggression. And i will gtfo, when my tolerance for people who enjoy causing others grief is used up. It's a sad day when people of the type who, when they were children, would have taken a magnifying glass to ants, are applauded for their embrace of the rules of the game and resistance against changes. The one thing I will praise you for is, as far as I have noticed, you haven't talked about enjoying ganking victim's tears. Reveling in ruining someone else's fun is truly pathetic.


What's pathetic is people who make bad personal choices, like the bad personal choice to play a game NOTORIOUS in the gaming world for being cold, harsh and dark then getting mad because it's players are cold, harsh and dark to them. Did you think you were playing hello kitti online? This is EVE, man up or man out.

It shows how twisted some people are, that they would have the nerve to present a snooty, superior air about themselves when in fact they are truly misfits.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#262 - 2014-01-06 14:03:35 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
We'll have to agree to disagree until only players are responsible for paying out on any and all completed PvE missions.

I will not agree to disagree. You're wrong.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone
Caldari State
#263 - 2014-01-06 14:12:25 UTC
Just when I thought I could walk away...
James Amril-Kesh wrote:


Do you play first person shooters because you want to walk through the map and look at the god damn scenery? Because that's basically what you're asking for with EVE. This is the game. People who kill you in the game are not sociopaths, they're PLAYING THE GAME.

I play FPS all the time. It's where I get real PvP activity. I caved in and moved from BF3 to BF4, and I love it. I also thoroughly enjoy instanced PvP content in other MMO's, like battlegrounds in WoW.

Why?

I get to PICK when to PvP. I can actually fight back and potentially win. In contrast, in Eve, I have to reduce my effectiveness at making ISK (which allows me to continue to play) to make it a little bit harder for people to gank me. You know, if there were a 100% block on non-duel PvP in highsec, I would probably put myself on the edge of lowsec, and actually participate in real PvP! I could log in, do my 'boring' carebear stuff, and then go fight. There is a reason why in other MMO's there are PvE and PvP realms. Lots and lots of people like to be able to pick the way they play.

If you guys wanted a reality sim that badly, go become a bouncer at a club or something. You could beat up real live drunk people. Oh, the tears!!!
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#264 - 2014-01-06 14:13:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
We'll have to agree to disagree until only players are responsible for paying out on any and all completed PvE missions.
Missions aren't just about mission rewards and bounty payouts. If you loot and salvage to sell or reprocess for sale you're using the market, a PvP environment. If you buy new ships, ammo and modules you are once again using the market, a PvP environment. If you use LP to get implants, modules etc you've deprived someone else of a sale, if you sell the items you are directly competing with other players in a PvP environment.

The only way you can effectively mission without engaging in one form of PvP or another is to fly free noob ships fitted with loot and with looted ammo.

TL;DR If you've ever used the market to buy or sell, you've engaged in PvP.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#265 - 2014-01-06 14:15:38 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
I caved in and moved from BF3 to BF4, and I love it. I also thoroughly enjoy instanced PvP content in other MMO's, like battlegrounds in WoW.


Ugh

BF2 was pretty much perfectly balanced. BF3 and BF4 are terribad, aimbot-tweaked godawful messes

WoW battlegrounds are glorifed CTF maps with little in the way of controllable activity bar spamming.


I see why you dont like EvE combat.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone
Caldari State
#266 - 2014-01-06 14:19:20 UTC
Market pvp is fine. I get to choose when to engage. People aren't about to 'jump' me and steal my ISK. I can read the terms, do the math, and make decisions. All of that is taken away in ganking. I don't want to eliminate PvP, and I don't even want to eliminate *all* ganking. As I've said many time, all I want is to make it a much more serious effort to be able to gank.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#267 - 2014-01-06 14:20:28 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
Just when I thought I could walk away...
James Amril-Kesh wrote:


Do you play first person shooters because you want to walk through the map and look at the god damn scenery? Because that's basically what you're asking for with EVE. This is the game. People who kill you in the game are not sociopaths, they're PLAYING THE GAME.

I play FPS all the time. It's where I get real PvP activity. I caved in and moved from BF3 to BF4, and I love it. I also thoroughly enjoy instanced PvP content in other MMO's, like battlegrounds in WoW.

Why?

I get to PICK when to PvP. I can actually fight back and potentially win. In contrast, in Eve, I have to reduce my effectiveness at making ISK (which allows me to continue to play) to make it a little bit harder for people to gank me.

So basically it's about making the maximum possible amount of ISK without interference. That's what you want?
You do realize that you have a choice of either going for max yield and eating the cost on the occasions that you get ganked, or tanking your ship for somewhat lower yield yet not having to pay to replace any ships?
Only you can make the decision as to which actually nets you more ISK in the long run.
God forbid you should actually have to make CHOICES in this game.

ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
You know, if there were a 100% block on non-duel PvP in highsec, I would probably put myself on the edge of lowsec, and actually participate in real PvP! I could log in, do my 'boring' carebear stuff, and then go fight. There is a reason why in other MMO's there are PvE and PvP realms. Lots and lots of people like to be able to pick the way they play.

The reason is because those MMOs cater to the casual crowd, like yourself, who's okay with facing off against other players as long as that doesn't entail any sort of consequence. Most of us who play this game desire something with a little bit more substance and meaning.

ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
If you guys wanted a reality sim that badly, go become a bouncer at a club or something. You could beat up real live drunk people. Oh, the tears!!!

Again with this "gankers are sociopaths" bullshit.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#268 - 2014-01-06 14:21:53 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
Market pvp is fine. I get to choose when to engage. People aren't about to 'jump' me and steal my ISK. I can read the terms, do the math, and make decisions. All of that is taken away in ganking. I don't want to eliminate PvP, and I don't even want to eliminate *all* ganking. As I've said many time, all I want is to make it a much more serious effort to be able to gank.

So what would you consider someone who severely undercuts all other orders in the market, to the point where reselling your items at a cost competitive to theirs would cause you to lose significant amounts of ISK?
I'd consider that roughly equivalent to the ganker who liberates you from your ship without notice.

I've had this happen to me before. I wasn't happy about it. I even complained a bit to my corpmates. But I'm not about to go ask CCP to force players to trade fairly.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone
Caldari State
#269 - 2014-01-06 14:22:09 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
I caved in and moved from BF3 to BF4, and I love it. I also thoroughly enjoy instanced PvP content in other MMO's, like battlegrounds in WoW.


Ugh

BF2 was pretty much perfectly balanced. BF3 and BF4 are terribad, aimbot-tweaked godawful messes

WoW battlegrounds are glorifed CTF maps with little in the way of controllable activity bar spamming.


I see why you dont like EvE combat.

Bf2 was my first FPS, and I was completely stunned. It was incredible. When 2142 come out, I moved over and loved it even more, despite the loss of some of the physics effects (HALO drops were wicked fun). Funny how no one ever talks about 2142.... BF3 and 4 are incredible due to their depth and breadth of the maps, and the pure incredible nature of their effects. The first time in 3 that a jet exploded by me in game, I literally jumped in my seat.

/endofftopic
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#270 - 2014-01-06 14:23:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
I also thoroughly enjoy instanced PvP content in other MMO's, like battlegrounds in WoW.
Instances Ugh I hope to never see Eve go down this path, it'll be the death of it.
Quote:
There is a reason why in other MMO's there are PvE and PvP realms. Lots and lots of people like to be able to pick the way they play.
We play because Eve lacks that split, if Eve had that PvP/PvE split it's doubtful it would have made 5 years, let alone 10. The very fact that it's a persistent single shard (realm) PvP game is one of its major attractions.

As you say there's plenty of MMO's with that split, I hear SC has a PvP slider so that may well be more to your liking if it ever comes to fruition. Meanwhile leave Eve to those of us that have embraced it for what it is, so that we still have a half decent game to play when you and your ilk bugger off to the next shiny MMO that takes your fancy.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone
Caldari State
#271 - 2014-01-06 14:24:26 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

So what would you consider someone who severely undercuts all other orders in the market, to the point where reselling your items at a cost competitive to theirs would cause you to lose significant amounts of ISK?
I'd consider that roughly equivalent to the ganker who liberates you from your ship without notice.

I simply would not list it, or move it to a system farther away..... Heck, I might make even more ISK then! Again, I get to choose.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#272 - 2014-01-06 14:25:25 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

So what would you consider someone who severely undercuts all other orders in the market, to the point where reselling your items at a cost competitive to theirs would cause you to lose significant amounts of ISK?
I'd consider that roughly equivalent to the ganker who liberates you from your ship without notice.

I simply would not list it, or move it to a system farther away..... Heck, I might make even more ISK then! Again, I get to choose.

PVP elsewhere in the game is no different.
You always have choices.

You're illustrating my point. You've countered my point about market "gankers" by pointing out things you can do to mitigate their effect.
It's no different than with your mining and gankers there.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#273 - 2014-01-06 14:30:50 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:


I get to PICK when to PvP.


Then why are you playing a game that has (as one of it's corner stones) NON-CONSENSUAL PVP?

This is what I was talking about when I said people like you make bad choices. Non-consensual pvp didn't just happen in EVE, it was a founding principle. If you don't like one of the core founding principles of EVE, why do you play EVE?
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
Insidious.
#274 - 2014-01-06 14:33:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Seven Koskanaiken
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:

I get to PICK when to PvP. I can actually fight back and potentially win. In contrast, in Eve, I have to reduce my effectiveness at making ISK (which allows me to continue to play) to make it a little bit harder for people to gank me. You know, if there were a 100% block on non-duel PvP in highsec, I would probably put myself on the edge of lowsec, and actually participate in real PvP! I could log in, do my 'boring' carebear stuff, and then go fight. There is a reason why in other MMO's there are PvE and PvP realms. Lots and lots of people like to be able to pick the way they play.



What you mean to say is that you have traded a higher yield with greater oscillations in your net worth in exchange for a lower yield but with less variance.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#275 - 2014-01-06 14:35:03 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:


I get to PICK when to PvP.


Then why are you playing a game that has (as one of it's corner stones) NON-CONSENSUAL PVP?

This is what I was talking about when I said people like you make bad choices. Non-consensual pvp didn't just happen in EVE, it was a founding principle. If you don't like one of the core founding principles of EVE, why do you play EVE?

The ganker gets to pick when to "PVP" as well, and it happens to be the miner. In the belt. In highsec.

(Ganking isn't pvp)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#276 - 2014-01-06 14:38:59 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:

Bf2 was my first FPS, and I was completely stunned. It was incredible. When 2142 come out, I moved over and loved it even more, despite the loss of some of the physics effects (HALO drops were wicked fun). Funny how no one ever talks about 2142.... BF3 and 4 are incredible due to their depth and breadth of the maps, and the pure incredible nature of their effects. The first time in 3 that a jet exploded by me in game, I literally jumped in my seat.

/endofftopic


\continuingofftopic

See, I dont get why you think these games were improved.

2142 was a cute enough game, very like Tribes in places, but woefully undersupported and no interesting backstory to speak of.

BF3 and 4 had large maps you say? Really? Is that why they poohed all over the concept of vehicle combat, multi-crewed vehicles and reduced it to an infantry slugfest?

And yeah, nice effect, if you can afford a rig that could run em.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#277 - 2014-01-06 14:39:48 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
I get to choose.


Yes, you do

So why deny that choice to others?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
Insidious.
#278 - 2014-01-06 14:41:54 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
Market pvp is fine. I get to choose when to engage. People aren't about to 'jump' me and steal my ISK. I can read the terms, do the math, and make decisions. All of that is taken away in ganking. I don't want to eliminate PvP, and I don't even want to eliminate *all* ganking. As I've said many time, all I want is to make it a much more serious effort to be able to gank.


The math is

Revenue (ore sold) - Expenses (replaced barges) = Income
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#279 - 2014-01-06 14:54:42 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

So what would you consider someone who severely undercuts all other orders in the market, to the point where reselling your items at a cost competitive to theirs would cause you to lose significant amounts of ISK?
I'd consider that roughly equivalent to the ganker who liberates you from your ship without notice.

I simply would not list it, or move it to a system farther away..... Heck, I might make even more ISK then! Again, I get to choose.

PVP elsewhere in the game is no different.
You always have choices.

You're illustrating my point. You've countered my point about market "gankers" by pointing out things you can do to mitigate their effect.
It's no different than with your mining and gankers there.


Dude, are you really trying to use logic in here? What the hell are you thinking?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#280 - 2014-01-06 15:05:39 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

So what would you consider someone who severely undercuts all other orders in the market, to the point where reselling your items at a cost competitive to theirs would cause you to lose significant amounts of ISK?
I'd consider that roughly equivalent to the ganker who liberates you from your ship without notice.

I simply would not list it, or move it to a system farther away..... Heck, I might make even more ISK then! Again, I get to choose.

PVP elsewhere in the game is no different.
You always have choices.

You're illustrating my point. You've countered my point about market "gankers" by pointing out things you can do to mitigate their effect.
It's no different than with your mining and gankers there.


Dude, are you really trying to use logic in here? What the hell are you thinking?


I think you've just won the forums....