EVE General Discussion

Well, honey ... there are quite a few ways to change this.

Btw ... where's the cucumber? ;)

Kudos to the OP for being brave enough to open himself to "interesting" responses.

I'll just leave this hanging here with my sig to say it for me.

You make some valid points, Katran, but do you really believe that EVE's value is held in the isk it contains? Or does the heart and soul of EVE lie within the sandbox pgc created by its community? Because the last time I checked, much like a church is just a building, or currency is just paper, without its pvp, EVE would have little/no pgc. Folks can characterize mining as pve or trading as pve or missioning as pve all day long - but as those activities do not happen in a vacuum, they have an effect on everyone else.

And that's pvp.

YK

How often does building a ship remove more isk from the game than insurance pays out for losing it?

A perfectly valid point. If it weren't for morons professionals blowing each other up all the time, there would be little market for anyone looking to sell replacement ships. Especially considering that in PvE by the time a person graduates to that big, expensive battleship they will, unless they're dense, have enough skills racked up to not lose it very easily. And it is obvious why frigate sales seem to peak in areas right next to FW systems, too.

I am not discounting that PvP helps keep the ISK flowing into the hands of industry. That's more of an "economic philosophy" issue than a hard-coded, game programming one. In terms of absolute truths, the way the game is set up and how ISK is both rezzed and derezzed out of the CCP server (just to make it perfectly clear about the reality that I'm talking about), as I said, all positive ISK flow comes from missions, rats, and selling things to NPC vendors. And, interestingly enough, not only is tax/broker/contract fees ways that ISK are deleted, they're also the only way that it is deleted.

Just as the guy buying you ship is using ISK that was added to the collective EvE economy by one of the three methods I mentioned, but even if that ship is destroyed the ISK still exists. It's just in your wallet instead of his. So we can actually remove PvP as the primary ISK sink of EvE. (And with a thunderclap many heads just exploded from minds being completely blown).

All PvP really does is move already existing ISK from the hands of the PvPer and into the hands of the industrialist. But both the PvE player and the PvP player are suffering similar ISK entropy rates due to taxes (skills change this slightly, but it's never eliminated entirely).

The problem that keeps people from getting what I'm saying through their thick skulls is that they're so ego-centric and self-absorbed that they can't see the EvE economy past their own personal wallets. In their tiny minds if they make a profit selling loot from PvP wrecks then PvP is somehow "generating" ISK for EvE as a whole. It ain't. When I talk about "generating ISK" I mean the game server itself bringing ISK into it's digital existence, and when I talk about deleting ISK then I mean exactly that too - the game server removing it from the game through taxes. Who's wallet it sits in or passes through along the way is irrelevant, or rather relevant only insofar as every transaction slices a little more off the cheese and feeds some ISK back into the void.

So again, in absolute "reality" (I say in quotes because, yes, it's a game) ISK is only generated by NPCs and only deleted by taxes and other sorts of NPC fees. It may spend it's life in player wallets, but is born and buried entirely by NPC actions - and that means PvE.

What does that have to be with them being an isk faucet or not?


Which is basically what I said.


So are you one of those people who thinks PVP is an ISK sink?

Which is why it cant exist in that form


But yes, in theory


IN THEORY Highsec folk could form a police force and remove the need for CONCORD but thats about as likely as *insert witty comparision here*

No, the artificial mechanism of PvE should be removed from the game as soon as possible. Its complete nonsense and undermines the most unique aspect of EvE; that the players do everything.

Im not able to suggest an alternative as the player base has not fully realised its own potential. But some day, when the Alliances replace the Empires, then things will finally change.

The intro states: "The Empires hold on power is crumbling..." Well, lets hasten that crumbling and usher in a universe where players truly exist in a game where there are no NPCs.

Also, as the post above mine alludes to, if you want to erect a barrier against getting your melt knocked in, stand up and DO something about it


Stop being so fing flaccid all the time

"First Interstellar Bank of Chribba."

The only bank who's currency is backed by real Veldspar, unlike all those stupid fiat ISK banks.

Actually ... now that I think about it ...

HELL YES!