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Would EVE be more fun without mindless grinding?

Author
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
#1 - 2014-01-05 22:06:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Diamond Zerg
Hello.

Do you think EVE would more fun if CCP removed the need for boring, repetitive tasks (which can be completed by a machine) like ratting and mining, and made progression in the game based on more difficult, skill based ones (like PvP)?

Things would still have personal value to players, loss would still be meaningful—however getting ahead financially in EVE would be based on skill, creativity and intelligence.

Now, I'm not suggesting long term goals or time consuming activities be removed from the game.

I'm suggesting that the means to gain an advantage in EVE should be difficult, and players should compete for these resources
(Hisec level 4s in a reasonably priced ship are a long way from this.)


Anyway, do you have any arguments for and against the removal of menial grinding?
Hi.
Dasola
New Edens Freeports
#2 - 2014-01-05 22:10:54 UTC
Clearly you have not been living in nullsec. Great wars are nothing if not grinding...

We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do...

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2014-01-05 22:12:08 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Hello.

Do you think EVE would more fun if CCP made all income passive and removed the need for boring, repetitive tasks (which can be completed by a machine) like ratting and mining?

Now, who gets the most passive income could be determined by a number of factors, such as skill in PvP, skill with spreadsheets (in the case of industry) and general intelligence/creativeness.

Imo, it's possible that such a universe would be much more fun to play in.
People would PvP more often, and progression would be based more on skill, and less on the amount of time spent grinding.



Better yet use the FPS model where you just spawn in a small gang with a free ship and if it gets blown up you respawn in a new free ship at the spawn point. Sucks if the bad guys camp your spawn point though.

To make it even more fun you could have red and blue flags you need to capture.
Clem Fandango
Doomheim
#4 - 2014-01-05 22:16:06 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Hello.

Do you think EVE would more fun if CCP made all income passive and removed the need for boring, repetitive tasks (which can be completed by a machine) like ratting and mining?

Now, who gets the most passive income could be determined by a number of factors, such as skill in PvP, skill with spreadsheets (in the case of industry) and general intelligence/creativeness.

Imo, it's possible that such a universe would be much more fun to play in.
People would PvP more often, and progression would be based more on skill, and less on the amount of time spent grinding.


Most creative and intelligent people don't do ratting or mining to make ISK. All you are suggesting is making it possible for non-creative and stupid people to do the same.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#5 - 2014-01-05 22:16:25 UTC
Not really.

Sure, it would be great if all the boring, repetitive tasks were removed, but only if they were replaced by fun, dynamic tasks. Replacing it with passive income would just make it worse.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#6 - 2014-01-05 22:19:06 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
(which can be completed by a machine) like ratting and mining?


It smells like bot in here.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#7 - 2014-01-05 22:22:44 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Hello.

Do you think EVE would more fun if CCP made all income passive and removed the need for boring, repetitive tasks (which can be completed by a machine) like ratting and mining?

Now, who gets the most passive income could be determined by a number of factors, such as skill in PvP, skill with spreadsheets (in the case of industry) and general intelligence/creativeness.

Imo, it's possible that such a universe would be much more fun to play in.
People would PvP more often, and progression would be based more on skill, and less on the amount of time spent grinding.


A few comments, completely off the top of my head:
- I think that Eve is successful as a game because some amount of grinding provides a sense of personal value to your in game items. The risk and loss of items that have personal value is an important aspect in keeping people engaged and competitive in the game.
- You couldn't make this kind of change without changing the genre of the game.
- I think this same line of reasoning could be applied to any game, all the way to the point where you're just watching a movie about what your character does.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#8 - 2014-01-05 22:35:00 UTC
Stealth "Things cost too much" thread.





Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#9 - 2014-01-05 22:36:50 UTC
But my income IS passive. Gotta love industry and trade.
JD No7
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#10 - 2014-01-05 22:38:55 UTC
Am I some kind of strange creature that, whilst a PVPer at heart, still enjoys Exploration and Plexes in 0.0, and Wormhole PVE?

I think most people who complain about the grind need to get out of Highsec...
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#11 - 2014-01-05 22:58:58 UTC
... marvels at the (de-)evolution of the EVE "mindset" and how it is rapidly approaching par with the attention span of a goldfish where anything requiring effort and participation is concerned. Desmond Morris should write a book/do a show about this.

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#12 - 2014-01-06 00:27:36 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Hello.

Do you think EVE would more fun if CCP made all income passive and removed the need for boring, repetitive tasks (which can be completed by a machine) like ratting and mining?

Now, who gets the most passive income could be determined by a number of factors, such as skill in PvP, skill with spreadsheets (in the case of industry) and general intelligence/creativeness.

Imo, it's possible that such a universe would be much more fun to play in.
People would PvP more often, and progression would be based more on skill, and less on the amount of time spent grinding.


The only people who'd think this would be more fun are people addicted to (combat/pewpew) pvp. I like pew-pewwing in games from time to time, but hell I pvp all day at work, coming home and shoting some red crosses/space zombies is relaxing lol.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#13 - 2014-01-06 00:36:12 UTC
Quote:
If all income was passive?

No.

Half or more of the fun in EVE is actively swiping other folks' stuff.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc

Themanfromdalmontee
EVE RADIO ARMY
#14 - 2014-01-06 00:37:24 UTC
OK what? So you want to play War Thunder, World of Tanks etc then...please go play that and stop talking rubbish.

Just because your one play style would be great with passive income why would anyone elses be?

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-01-06 00:56:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Dreamstar
Without work, there's no value in what you possess.

The issue is not the grind itself, but that it's not challenging enough.
It's too repetitive, too easy and players can too easily tell others how to go the easy way through it.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#16 - 2014-01-06 01:05:23 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:


Imo, it's possible that such a universe would be much more fun to play in.
People would PvP more often, and progression would be based more on skill, and less on the amount of time spent grinding.
Well there are places where that exists, they are called China, Cuba, Laos, N.Kora and Vietnam. I just don't consider them entirely fun.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#17 - 2014-01-06 01:35:09 UTC
Outside of hi sec there is plenty of PVP content that revolves around PVE content, the problem is that people can't be encouraged to try them so they run missions and complain how boring and **** they are.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#18 - 2014-01-06 01:54:43 UTC
Sure it'd be more fun for people who enjoy ship on ship combat... but what about people who enjoy industry and trade? Some people genuinely have more fun being support for the "meatsacks" out there.

Then there is the issue with value. What value is there in a win or loss if it just "goes away" within a certain period of time? Aside from ego they become meaningless. People might stop trying to be "better" and adapt with every fight if they no that a loss won't hurt them. I personally strive to become a better PvPer because each loss hurts... because each time I lose a ship I have to spend painful amounts of time doing things I don't want to do (e.g. PvE, hauling, doing inventory checks on what I have in the hanger, etc.).

I may not like logistics... and I may hate PvE... but in a perverse way it makes fighting just a little more fun... especially when I know that the guy I have just blown up has to do the same thing. Twisted
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#19 - 2014-01-06 02:20:00 UTC
Dasola wrote:
Clearly you have not been living in nullsec. Great wars are nothing if not grinding...


And don't forget the moon goo ... possibly the biggest passive income generator around. RMT would probably grind to a halt without it.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Xavier Higdon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#20 - 2014-01-06 02:35:57 UTC
Go play Call of Duty and leave EvE alone.
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