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EVE is PVE
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Rifterlings 3,455
Domanique Altares Rifterlings Likes received: 3,455	#181 - 2014-01-05 00:16:29 UTC 1 James Amril-Kesh wrote: Domanique Altares wrote: Sounds like a good spot for a DCU II to me There are no tech 2 drone control units. A fact that I consider highly unfortunate. If there were, however, they would surely consume 40CPU, 2PG, and reside in the solitary low slot of a rebalanced freighter.

dilly nay

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 27

#182 - 2014-01-05 00:37:23 UTC | Edited by: dilly nay

you are quite the eve philosopher op.

all i do in eve is mission grind and found nothing relevant to your post.

is this some kind of conceited attempt to assert what you do as being superior? maybe as a counter measure to all the pvp kidds posting about how great pvp is then i say you've done no good. just like those who down trodden others as being 'carebears' always tend to pat themselves on the back for thinking they're onto something.

it's just as easy to say that without pvp there would be nobody to buy your minerals or large modules and so im afraid your antithesis falls.

Alavaria Fera

GoonWaffe

Likes received: 6,953

#183 - 2014-01-05 00:47:33 UTC

Domanique Altares wrote:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Domanique Altares wrote:

Sounds like a good spot for a DCU II to me

There are no tech 2 drone control units.

A fact that I consider highly unfortunate.

If there were, however, they would surely consume 40CPU, 2PG, and reside in the solitary low slot of a rebalanced freighter.

What about officer ones

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Mallak Azaria

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 6,614

#184 - 2014-01-05 01:02:11 UTC | Edited by: Mallak Azaria

Meyr wrote:

If you can't fill a freighter's cargohold with the least expensive cargo possible, without it being cost-effective to gank it, while giving the pilot ZERO options for altering the survivability of his vessel, it's a FAIL design.

Freigher pilots have many options for altering the survivability of their ship. Like miners however, they choose not to do any of this because then they would have to manually pilot their ship.

Meyr wrote:

THAT is why so many of us say that ganking is too easy. Not because idiots are locking everything that comes through a gate, but because the Industrialists and Haulers have NO VIABLE OPTIONS IN HOW TO FIT THEIR VESSELS.

Ganking stupid people is easy because they continue being stupid. Perhaps if they didn't fill their lows with cargo expanders then stuff everything they own in to their untanked hauler.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Mallak Azaria

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 6,614

#185 - 2014-01-05 01:11:07 UTC

Meyr wrote:

If it makes YOUR 'fun' more difficult, awwww, poor baby, too bad. That's what you gankers have been telling hauler pilots for years.

Yeah, because it's not like you people haven't been screaming at CCP to make ganking harder for years now or anything. Why put a little effort in to making yourself less likely to be ganked when you can just beg CCP to do it for you?

Johan Civire

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,190

#186 - 2014-01-05 01:18:12 UTC

Meyr wrote:

Yes, I know some of you are going to threaten revenge for (insert whatever you want here).

Too bad.

EVE Online is PVE. PVP is what DRIVES EVE Online. The desire for fights, space, vengeance, and much more, but it's all based upon PVE.

You can disagree all you want to, but, at its core, PVE is what enables all of the PVP.

Wether it's mining (yes, all of you nullsec hardcases, MOON MINING IS STILL MINING - it's just the ultimate in AFK PVE), manufacturing, ratting, Faction Warfare, trading (yes, at the highest levels, trading is PVP, but not to 99% of the PEOPLE doing it), or mission-running, PVE is what EVE is based upon.

NO ONE can pay for their PVP by only doing PVP. Your SRP is paid for by corp or alliance taxes, which, ultimately, are generated by PVE. Your Faction Warfare ships are paid for by the PVE portion of FW, not just by 'pew-pew.'

Just because someone doesn't want to PVP doesn't mean they're "doing it wrong." Quite the contrary - they're doing it how they want to. They're paying their subscription fee to CCP, and getting something they enjoy in return.

THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is the ultimate sandbox. Stop your moronic, short-sighted, and stupidly egotistical sneering at those evil, lazy, cowardly, and dirty mission-runners - who do you think just bought that X-Type X-Large Shield Booster from you? Some idiot looking to pad your killboard in the next fleet fight? Of course not.

Some people want to 'pew-pew!' Nothing wrong with that. Others just want to build things. Great - someone has to make new stuff to replace the losses, or supply new doctrines.

Others just want to have the shiniest, most ISK-per-module 'blinged-out' "ain't no rat gonna kill this" mission-running ship. It's a goal - just like that top-end Bougatti you'll never even come close to pushing to its limits.

So, stating that EVE is only a 'harsh, cold, dangerous place' is, at best, myopic - it merely goes to show how self-centered you are. I've made great friends of people I'll probably never meet in person. I've spent time enjoying solo play, and I've been one more name in local during huge fleet fights.

EVE is what you make of it - but it's all paid for by PVE. No PVE, no PVP.

Yes, it really is that simple.

This is what i call good reading but its wrong. You need to go back in 2001 when the beta was release hoop you get your answers. Eve is pvp/pk based. Not pve. Pve is a job you can do. For mining you need to pvp. See the link back to basic 2001. And that will end all debate on that matter.

Domanique Altares

Rifterlings

Likes received: 3,455

#187 - 2014-01-05 01:20:24 UTC

Alavaria Fera wrote:

Domanique Altares wrote:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Domanique Altares wrote:

Sounds like a good spot for a DCU II to me

There are no tech 2 drone control units.

A fact that I consider highly unfortunate.

If there were, however, they would surely consume 40CPU, 2PG, and reside in the solitary low slot of a rebalanced freighter.

What about officer ones

I'm not really so sure about that. It might turn out to be a little OP to put an officer mod on a freighter.

Hasikan Miallok

Republic University

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 1,926

#188 - 2014-01-05 03:51:37 UTC | Edited by: Hasikan Miallok

Domanique Altares wrote:

Alavaria Fera wrote:

Domanique Altares wrote:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Domanique Altares wrote:

Sounds like a good spot for a DCU II to me

There are no tech 2 drone control units.

A fact that I consider highly unfortunate.

If there were, however, they would surely consume 40CPU, 2PG, and reside in the solitary low slot of a rebalanced freighter.

What about officer ones

I'm not really so sure about that. It might turn out to be a little OP to put an officer mod on a freighter.

Takes just under a Billion in 'nados to gank a typical freighter. People would gank it just for the officer mods even if it had minimal cargo :D In fact it would get ganked just for the chat/forum street cred of "hey look at this idiot in an officer fit freighter".

Note that the recent indy changes made some ships such as the Nereus, Wreathe etc capable of actually being a viable ganking bait ship in themselves. Tthe nereus can manage a LSE and DCU for 25k or more EHP, 6 drones a couple of warp stabs and still have room for a MWD and cloak all for under 5 mill fitted. A small gang of nereus would be a hilarious but effective ganking fleet.

However the same changes have made big capacity indys like the Iteron V and Bestower even harder to tank effectively.

Mallak Azaria

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 6,614

#189 - 2014-01-05 04:26:43 UTC

Hasikan Miallok wrote:

Takes just under a Billion in 'nados to gank a typical freighter.

That is called overkill. You can do it for just over half the price & with less people.

Meyr

Di-Tron Heavy Industries

OnlyFleets.

Likes received: 392

#190 - 2014-01-05 04:59:17 UTC

Kimmi Chan wrote:

Meyr wrote:

How about, as I've proposed several times, reducing all Freighter's cargo capacity to the point where a T2 cargohold expander will return them to their current capacity, and fit them with one low slot, 40 CPU, and 2 PG?

You DO understand that freighter pilots need SOME form of options in fitting their ships? Should they CHOOSE to gimp their ship's cargo capacity in return for increased survivability, who are you to protest it?

If it makes YOUR 'fun' more difficult, awwww, poor baby, too bad. That's what you gankers have been telling hauler pilots for years.

You want the killmail, I want to reach my destination intact. If my choice in how I fit my ship means you can't log in knowing exactly what it's going to take to kill me, that's not my problem. If a DC II makes my ship too hard for you to kill, too bad.

HTFU, as you gankers like to tell everyone else!

So you want to change freighters? That was the whole point of this Eve is PvE thing? I've hauled all kinds of stuff in my Crane. Never had a problem. I am guessing that a lot of freighter pilots get along just fine. But something tells me that you are very angry and passionate about this crusade which leads me to guess that you have had problems that other freighter pilots have not. Am I off the mark here?

Nope. Haven't lost one yet. I simply hate the fact that freighter pilots have zero choice in regards to the survivability of their ship.

Mallak Azaria

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 6,614

#191 - 2014-01-05 05:05:00 UTC

Meyr wrote:

Nope. Haven't lost one yet. I simply hate the fact that freighter pilots have zero choice in regards to the survivability of their ship.

They do, but they choose not to take precautionary measures.

Viziam Amarr Empire 11,532
James Amril-Kesh Viziam Amarr Empire Likes received: 11,532	#192 - 2014-01-05 05:09:37 UTC Meyr wrote: Nope. Haven't lost one yet. I simply hate the fact that freighter pilots have zero choice in regards to the survivability of their ship. I can think of at least six options without even trying. Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Meyr

Di-Tron Heavy Industries

OnlyFleets.

Likes received: 392

#193 - 2014-01-05 05:12:53 UTC

Mallak Azaria wrote:

Meyr wrote:

If it makes YOUR 'fun' more difficult, awwww, poor baby, too bad. That's what you gankers have been telling hauler pilots for years.

I trust you see the irony of a Goon making the above statement?

What I mentioned specifically was the fact that a freighter pilot has no choice in how many Catalysts it will take to kill his ship.

Mallak Azaria

Caldari Provisions

Caldari State

Likes received: 6,614

#194 - 2014-01-05 05:18:53 UTC | Edited by: Mallak Azaria

Meyr wrote:

Mallak Azaria wrote:

Meyr wrote:

If it makes YOUR 'fun' more difficult, awwww, poor baby, too bad. That's what you gankers have been telling hauler pilots for years.

I trust you see the irony of a Goon making the above statement?

What I mentioned specifically was the fact that a freighter pilot has no choice in how many Catalysts it will take to kill his ship.

They do, they just choose not to use to available options. I've never been in the habit of begging CCP to make my playstyle easier because finding a counter was too much effort.

Meyr

Di-Tron Heavy Industries

OnlyFleets.

Likes received: 392

#195 - 2014-01-05 05:23:30 UTC

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Meyr wrote:

Nope. Haven't lost one yet. I simply hate the fact that freighter pilots have zero choice in regards to the survivability of their ship.

I can think of at least six options without even trying.

Please - elaborate at length!

What choice does a freighter pilot have in determining how many Catalysts it will take to kill his Obelisk?

At best, the pilot can plug in a few implants. Nothing else he has direct control over has any effect upon the EHP of his ship.

Alone among all ship classes, a freighter pilot has no fitting options.

Alavaria Fera

GoonWaffe

Likes received: 6,953

#196 - 2014-01-05 05:27:07 UTC

Mallak Azaria wrote:

Meyr wrote:

Mallak Azaria wrote:

Meyr wrote:

If it makes YOUR 'fun' more difficult, awwww, poor baby, too bad. That's what you gankers have been telling hauler pilots for years.

I trust you see the irony of a Goon making the above statement?

What I mentioned specifically was the fact that a freighter pilot has no choice in how many Catalysts it will take to kill his ship.

They do, they just choose not to use to available options. I've never been in the habit of begging CCP to make my playstyle easier because finding a counter was too much effort.

*shrug*

Just lie down and it'll end faster.

James Amril-Kesh

Viziam

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 11,532

#197 - 2014-01-05 05:29:15 UTC | Edited by: James Amril-Kesh

Meyr wrote:

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Meyr wrote:

Nope. Haven't lost one yet. I simply hate the fact that freighter pilots have zero choice in regards to the survivability of their ship.

I can think of at least six options without even trying.

EHP is not the only factor.

A freighter pilot can:

Use alts/friends to web them
Use Slave/LG Slave implants for more EHP (works best with armor freighters)
Use LG Nomad implants for agility
Fly JF instead for extra agility and EHP (costs quite a bit more though)
Use an alt/friend in a boosting ship to increase EHP
Take routes around common freighter ganking sites (e.g. Niarja) instead of going through them
Avoid autopilot
Use instant dock and undock bookmarks to avoid being cargo scanned at the most likely location (trade hub undocks)
Fly only through systems with higher security status to decrease CONCORD response time (which directly increases the DPS required to kill you)
Fly with combat escort (some jamming ships would be great for this)
Fly with logi escort
Log off if they're being bumped to set up a gank
Most importantly, avoid flying with cargo worth ganking over

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Alavaria Fera

GoonWaffe

Likes received: 6,953

#198 - 2014-01-05 05:34:08 UTC

James Amril-Kesh wrote:

EHP is not the only factor.

A freighter pilot can:

Use alts/friends to web him
Use Slave/LG Slave implants for more EHP (works best with armor freighters)
Use LG Nomad implants for agility
Fly JF instead for extra agility and EHP (costs quite a bit more though)
Use an alt/friend in a boosting ship to increase EHP
Take routes around common freighter ganking sites (e.g. Niarja) instead of going through them
Avoid autopilot
Use instant dock and undock bookmarks to avoid being cargo scanned at the most likely location (trade hub undocks)
Fly only through systems with higher security status to decrease CONCORD response time (which directly increases the DPS required to kill you)
Fly with combat escort (some jamming ships would be great for this)
Fly with logi escort
If you're being bumped as a setup for a gank, log off
Most importantly, don't fly with cargo worth ganking over

So when is CCP going to rebalance freighters to have more EHP


James Amril-Kesh Viziam Amarr Empire Likes received: 11,532	#199 - 2014-01-05 05:37:08 UTC On that note, buffing freighters to have more EHP isn't going to have the effect these whiners think it would have. Freighter EHP increases -> freighter pilots get more confident -> freighter pilots carry more expensive cargo -> ganking becomes profitable again. Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Katran Luftschreck

Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps

Likes received: 2,496

#200 - 2014-01-05 05:37:27 UTC

Every ISK generated in this game ultimately comes from three places: Mission rewards, rat bounties, and sales to NPC merchants (read: tags and general goods). That's it, nothing else.

Now from there that ISK may change hands many times. That pile of ISK may then be used to buy minerals, or equipment, or ammo, or whole ships. And when that happens it is taxed, like everything else in EvE. Thus, ISK suffers from natural entropy. I single chunk of ISK cannot last forever, and after it has changed hands enough times it will evaporate away entirely from taxes alone if nothing else.

So when someone buys that thing you're selling, where did they get the ISK from? Well, maybe they sold something themselves. Another player. Great, but where did that player get the ISK from? Trace it back far enough and sure enough, as I said, every ISK generated in EvE comes from some sort of PvE activity.

No matter how far removed you think you are from PvE, in the end every ISK in your wallet was originally generated when someone finished a mission, killed a rat, or sold junk to a NPC merchant. It may have gone through the wallets of a dozen players before reaching you, but in the end that is the undeniable source of all wealth in EvE.

TLDR; Taxes and destruction is how ISK is deleted. PvE is where ISK is created. Everything else is just middlemen and entropy.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

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