EVE General Discussion

If you are talking about me M. Megafleet, then I don't think 40/70 km is short range, even for large long distance turrets.
So, the only advantage in going from medium rail to large rail is the shooting distance, really ?
It's a little underwhelming...

Lets put a cruiser or BC against a mach, vindy, geddon, neut fit tempest, or domi. I am also forgetting an apocalypse, and a rail fit megathron or rokh. The first group of ships all have advantages, such as neuts, incredible speed, range projection, drone warfare, and int he case of the tempest, a small sig radius too. The latter group have incredible range projection and in a good fleet can be webbed/neuted to hell, and these ships can apply damage anywhere from 50km-100km.

...And then there are sniper fits. But granted, tier 3 BC's are a good role for that, although with the advent of MJD's that may change.

T3's naturally will dominate BS's, they are meant to. Saying that, when you are questioning missions, the only T3 that really does well against a L4 is the tengu. This is from experience. The legion struggles with sider drones and can end up dead in the water. The loki is ok but you need to mwd fit it, and its sig tank is gone.

Depends on the ship (and what you define as “usable”). They can do nasty things at ~50km if you fit (and load) for it.
Rails will happily brutalise things at 100k+ (even with shorter-range ammo), going to the full 250km if you need to, which admittedly you rarely do.

50 kilometers with the longest range ammos I guess, hey...

Ok, thanks for the infos all, I will see if a guns/drones hyperion is doable and worth it.

I see a lot of but, if's and maybe's in this thread.

tldr: The Battleship hull is a fail whale.

Longer version, back when the Battleship was added, it had a purpose. Back when 20K login was a CCP wet dream and being insta-blapped by 600 ships wasn't happening as standard practice. That was a very long time ago and now, the BS has become outmoded. It's no longer a dps hitpoint wall. Now it's a dps kite wall.

And as Goons have proven with great success, the way to win EVE is to spam junk. From the lowly Drake to any ship you can mass produce. Make lots. spam it on to the field.

just find it very telling that no nullseccer taken your up on this offer. Just shows how right you are.

It is indeed telling: he can't seem to make a point without deliberately biasing the conditions and ignoring the larger context of his supposed evidence.

Why do people use battleships?

From a PvE standpoint, the battleship is pretty much king of level 4 missions. Sure, the Ishtar and Tengu can also do them, but in terms of maximum buffer along with DPS, a battleship is where it's at. If you mess up and shoot a trigger early, you aren't worrying as much about the possibility of losing your ship because that huge reservoir of HP is there while you rep it up (if you're active tanked). On top of that, battleship-sized weapons provide the most damage output available, and there are only four ships in the game that can use those sized weapons while not being battleships themselves. None of them make very good level 4 missioning ships.

The Ishtar, Myrmidon, Eos and Prophecy can all field a full flight of heavy drones or sentries, allowing them to compete in that aspect with battleships in level 4s. Each can also field a decent tanks, especially with T2 resists.

In PvP it becomes a different story. In high sec the prevalence of bumping alts allows players to reliably use battleships, because it affords them increased range dictation capabilities. A Machariel bumping you is likely to prevent you from ever seeing the safety of the docking ring again. At the same time, should it prove to be a gank that same Machariel can keep the main against the station, allowing them to hide. Dodixie is a great place to watch this in action.

Battleships are big, lumbering battering rams, and that's about it. They provide big numbers when they work, but they need such stringent requirements to do so that they are most of the time not worth it. A solo PvPer or small gangs are not going to take battleships, they're going to be in a battlecruiser or below. It provides improved mobility while not sacrificing much in the way of tank or DPS. Plus, it's generally easier to maximize the capabilities of the battlecruiser long before you can do so with a battleship. When it comes right down to it, though, the battleship can and will lose to smaller ships, simply because of limiting factors (weapon tracking, smaller sig, etc.). While it might be nice to field the Megathron or Abaddon, an Ishtar can do the job as well, if not better.

Ignoring for a moment that you're probably a sock puppet, the reason we haven't taken him up on it is because it fails to address the larger issue of balance. As we've made abundantly clear, you don't judge ships based on 1v1 and call it a comprehensive comparison. That's just ********. It's like judging an Olympic gymnast on their landings alone.

I don't always quote myself but when I do, I really like to go off...

So I figure, your standard red delicious should have no problem making it through a mandarin ("christmas") orange, but might actually receive some damage upon impact with say, a small, unripened "sunkist" navel orange. The ripeness and variety of the apple would certainly come into question though, and I imagine the damage sustained by the apple would vary greatly dependent upon several factors.

Testing shall be required, but until then, the hypothesis is as follows:

That an apple* will, with a greater than 50% success rate, cause irreparable damage to an orange**, when colliding at speeds relative to an average human's arm-swinging motion, without the apple receiving irreparable damage.

*any 'standard' variety and size of apple
**any 'standard' variety and size of orange


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