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EVE is PVE
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Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2014-01-04 00:21:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Miasmos
Meyr wrote:
EI Digin wrote:
Meyr wrote:
NO ONE can pay for their PVP by only doing PVP. Your SRP is paid for by corp or alliance taxes, which, ultimately, are generated by PVE. Your Faction Warfare ships are paid for by the PVE portion of FW, not just by 'pew-pew.'


So you agree changes must be made to make PVP more profitable so you aren't forced to PVE if you want to PVP?

You believe in the sandbox right?


This would be a welcome change - i just have absolutely zero concept of how it could be done.


PVP salvage increase and wreck reprocessing for minerals on the spot. Introduce a new type of strip miner named "Ship Miner" which mines wrecks for minerals, fittable on mining barges. Alternately, haulers could scoop the wrecks and reprocess at station. Yield would be a percentage of base refined mats.

Get rid of insurance while at it to some degree.
Ambassador Crane
Hellhound Productions
#82 - 2014-01-04 00:44:35 UTC
Ahh...the age old Eve argument rehashed...

Stupid really.

It was said once already. Eve is a blend and a delicate balance of PVE and PVP. You need PVE to fund PVP activities. Even ganking ships requires it. Otherwise, what's the point of doing so (other than tears) if they're not carrying stuff made by pve activities worth selling. If they never carried stuff worth selling, how do you intend to continue funding the ships you use to gank them? You need PVE just to build the ships and modules you use to PVP (gank) with. You need PVE to make all the drugs you lunatics are obviously on too! P

So that brings us around to saying without PVP, there would be no real purpose to the PVE. Without PVP, nothing in the game would ever get destroyed. Eventually, there would be no need for anything further to be built except for new players entering the game, who would probably just end up building it for themselves. Even the market is driven by PVP. Everybody wants to sell their stuff but still get the most return. Everybody wants to buy the stuff for their projects at the lowest price possible. And thus even they are competing, aka PVP.

Eve isn't specifically a PVP game OR a PVE game. It's a sandbox. It's what you make of it.

Unfortunately, some are just too narrow minded to see beyond the reason they're here. They come for the PVP. Thus they see it as a PVP game. Others come for the PVE. So they see it as a PVE game. Some come for both, but like politics or religion, there's always two parties playing tug of war, trying to make you side with one over the other. And neither is really ever going to win because there is no definite truth.

If Eve has to be categorized as anything, I'd simply just call it a social game.
Daimon Kaiera
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#83 - 2014-01-04 01:10:12 UTC
OP, I found something for you to read

.... . .-.. .--. / .. / .... .- ...- . / ..-. .- .-.. .-.. . -. / .- -. -.. / .. / -.-. .- -. -. --- - / --. . - / ..- .--. / ... - --- .--. - .... .. ... / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. . / .. -.. . .- / .. ... / -. --- - / ... - --- .-.. . -. / ... - --- .--.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2014-01-04 01:13:40 UTC
I definitely hesitated when I saw that URL.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#85 - 2014-01-04 01:21:53 UTC
I seriously doubt anyone makes ISK on a regular basis out of genuine PvP.

On the other hand ganking miners and haulers and shiney mission ships fitted for PvE, that is another matter altogether, that clearly can be quite lucrative.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#86 - 2014-01-04 01:45:47 UTC
Meyr wrote:
Yes, I know some of you are going to threaten revenge for (insert whatever you want here).

Too bad.

EVE Online is PVE. PVP is what DRIVES EVE Online. The desire for fights, space, vengeance, and much more, but it's all based upon PVE.

You can disagree all you want to, but, at its core, PVE is what enables all of the PVP.

Wether it's mining (yes, all of you nullsec hardcases, MOON MINING IS STILL MINING - it's just the ultimate in AFK PVE), manufacturing, ratting, Faction Warfare, trading (yes, at the highest levels, trading is PVP, but not to 99% of the PEOPLE doing it), or mission-running, PVE is what EVE is based upon.

NO ONE can pay for their PVP by only doing PVP. Your SRP is paid for by corp or alliance taxes, which, ultimately, are generated by PVE. Your Faction Warfare ships are paid for by the PVE portion of FW, not just by 'pew-pew.'

Just because someone doesn't want to PVP doesn't mean they're "doing it wrong." Quite the contrary - they're doing it how they want to. They're paying their subscription fee to CCP, and getting something they enjoy in return.

THAT, ladies and gentlemen, is the ultimate sandbox. Stop your moronic, short-sighted, and stupidly egotistical sneering at those evil, lazy, cowardly, and dirty mission-runners - who do you think just bought that X-Type X-Large Shield Booster from you? Some idiot looking to pad your killboard in the next fleet fight? Of course not.

Some people want to 'pew-pew!' Nothing wrong with that. Others just want to build things. Great - someone has to make new stuff to replace the losses, or supply new doctrines.

Others just want to have the shiniest, most ISK-per-module 'blinged-out' "ain't no rat gonna kill this" mission-running ship. It's a goal - just like that top-end Bougatti you'll never even come close to pushing to its limits.

So, stating that EVE is only a 'harsh, cold, dangerous place' is, at best, myopic - it merely goes to show how self-centered you are. I've made great friends of people I'll probably never meet in person. I've spent time enjoying solo play, and I've been one more name in local during huge fleet fights.

EVE is what you make of it - but it's all paid for by PVE. No PVE, no PVP.

Yes, it really is that simple.



I think the OP is correct.

Wormholes. Why go there? To get stuff. What's that stuff for? Building T3 ships. What do you do with T3 ships? They are good for both PVE and PVP.

Missions. Why run missions? To get ISK. What do you need ISK for? For ships. Why do you need ships? Sometimes you lose then in PVE, more often ships are lost in PVP.

Mining. Why mine? For materials. What do you do with them? Build ships. What kind of ships? Other mining ships but mainly combat ships used in PVE and PVP.

Exploration. What do you do with all that stuff you find? Create ships, implants, rigs, and stuff that helps in creating or building things. What do you build with those things? Ships and modules. What do you do with ships and modules?


I can do this all day.


The problem is, or why even have a thread in the first place, is that some people like to think PVP is somehow some heightened and enlightened state of being that allows them the privilege of looking down on those who do not play the game they way they do. Back in the days when hard work paid off, or there was value in accomplishing things like cleaning up pollution or feeding the poor or inventing things, someone seeking prestige might go down those routes. But now there's pretty much no future or potential any more and everybody under 30 is raised on the "I got my bling and booty I'm the best" music videos, it's only an end result that people come into a game and exalt themselves through a play style.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone
Caldari State
#87 - 2014-01-04 02:03:45 UTC
Ganking is the same thing as the 'knock out game'. Prepared aggressor against an unprepared victim. There is no honor there.

I'd like to see bounties easier to collect. I'd even be okay with Concord offering a special limited-time "pass" to allow someone extra privileges in their hunt for a target. That could be a decent way to make ISK. Imagine all the money people would throw around trying to make life difficult for their competition.... Maybe Concord could even grant positive reputation based on the bounty collected (once per target, of course). If not that, then some other 'token' that a bounty hunter could turn in for loot of some kind.
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#88 - 2014-01-04 02:18:43 UTC
Meyr wrote:


EVE Online is PVE. PVP is what DRIVES EVE Online. The desire for fights, space, vengeance, and much more, but it's all based upon PVE.




I think slightly differently.

PvP includes trying to get CCP to give us what we want. PvP is trying to get our team to do what we want. PvP is trying to get people to leave me in peace so I can be as boring as I want.

The complexity of Player vs. Environment pales by comparison. Pop some drones out, target some asteroids and read something. But it is important, it is part of the infrastructure of the game and allows for different player styles. Like my boringness.

As to sandboxes.

EVE is a star box.

Where every pixel is possibility.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#89 - 2014-01-04 02:20:51 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
Ganking is the same thing as the 'knock out game'. Prepared aggressor against an unprepared victim. There is no honor there..

no ~e-honoureeee~

You heard it here first. Honorless.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alice Ituin
Doomheim
#90 - 2014-01-04 02:55:36 UTC
It's amazing how many of those "YOLO, EvE is PVP! HTFU" type of players are unable to think past their F1 button.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
Meyr wrote:

NO ONE can pay for their PVP by only doing PVP. Your SRP is paid for by corp or alliance taxes, which, ultimately, are generated by PVE. Your Faction Warfare ships are paid for by the PVE portion of FW, not just by 'pew-pew.'
.


You so completely and utterly wrong.

No, he is not. You just misunderstand his point.
Of course it's possible for a group or an individual to fund themselves with PvP activities.
BUT: You only take assets from other players - assets which have to come from somewhere.
PvP doesn't create any ships or modules, it destroys them.
If no one would do PvE anymore then eventually we would all be fighting each other in noobships.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#91 - 2014-01-04 03:00:09 UTC
Alice Ituin wrote:
It's amazing how many of those "YOLO, EvE is PVP! HTFU" type of players are unable to think past their F1 button.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
Meyr wrote:

NO ONE can pay for their PVP by only doing PVP. Your SRP is paid for by corp or alliance taxes, which, ultimately, are generated by PVE. Your Faction Warfare ships are paid for by the PVE portion of FW, not just by 'pew-pew.'
.


You so completely and utterly wrong.

No, he is not. You just misunderstand his point.
Of course it's possible for a group or an individual to fund themselves with PvP activities.
BUT: You only take assets from other players - assets which have to come from somewhere.
PvP doesn't create any ships or modules, it destroys them.
If no one would do PvE anymore then eventually we would all be fighting each other in noobships.

That wasn't his point. You just made a different one. But he explicitly said "No one can pay for PVP by doing only PVP" which is indeed patently false.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#92 - 2014-01-04 03:24:51 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Alice Ituin wrote:
It's amazing how many of those "YOLO, EvE is PVP! HTFU" type of players are unable to think past their F1 button.

Kagura Nikon wrote:
Meyr wrote:

NO ONE can pay for their PVP by only doing PVP. Your SRP is paid for by corp or alliance taxes, which, ultimately, are generated by PVE. Your Faction Warfare ships are paid for by the PVE portion of FW, not just by 'pew-pew.'
.


You so completely and utterly wrong.

No, he is not. You just misunderstand his point.
Of course it's possible for a group or an individual to fund themselves with PvP activities.
BUT: You only take assets from other players - assets which have to come from somewhere.
PvP doesn't create any ships or modules, it destroys them.
If no one would do PvE anymore then eventually we would all be fighting each other in noobships.

That wasn't his point. You just made a different one. But he explicitly said "No one can pay for PVP by doing only PVP" which is indeed patently false.

what he meant was actually not everyone can pay for pvp by pvp? or something?

And thus, eve is pve

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
I am disposable
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2014-01-04 03:25:31 UTC
Meyr wrote:
Sorry - I don't count ganking as PVP - it's a PK activity, pure and simple.

That stated, what else do you term as 'PVP paying for itself?'


Well there goes 90% of PVP in this game...
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#94 - 2014-01-04 03:25:39 UTC
As long as someone somewhere has to mine a rock or shoot a red plus

eve is pve

Amazing,.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#95 - 2014-01-04 03:26:27 UTC
I am disposable wrote:
Meyr wrote:
Sorry - I don't count ganking as PVP - it's a PK activity, pure and simple.

That stated, what else do you term as 'PVP paying for itself?'

Well there goes 90% of PVP in this game...

shaddap everyone knows ganking isn't pvp

this is general discussion

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#96 - 2014-01-04 03:31:44 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
Ganking is the same thing as the 'knock out game'. Prepared aggressor against an unprepared victim. There is no honor there.


Except they're not that same at all. One case is emergent gameplay in a computer game. The other is attempting to kill a random stranger for street cred.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#97 - 2014-01-04 03:32:30 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
Ganking is the same thing as the 'knock out game'. Prepared aggressor against an unprepared victim. There is no honor there.

Except they're not that same at all. One case is emergent gameplay in a computer game. The other is attempting to kill a random stranger for street cred.

i bet you gank

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#98 - 2014-01-04 03:35:42 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
Ganking is the same thing as the 'knock out game'. Prepared aggressor against an unprepared victim. There is no honor there.

Except they're not that same at all. One case is emergent gameplay in a computer game. The other is attempting to kill a random stranger for street cred.

i bet you gank


If ZynnLee Akkori is to be believed, I also roam the streets murdering innocent people for street cred.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#99 - 2014-01-04 03:38:46 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
Ganking is the same thing as the 'knock out game'. Prepared aggressor against an unprepared victim. There is no honor there.

Except they're not that same at all. One case is emergent gameplay in a computer game. The other is attempting to kill a random stranger for street cred.

i bet you gank

If ZynnLee Akkori is to be believed, I also roam the streets murdering innocent people for street cred.

sociopath

eve online ill needs a "pvp"er such as you !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#100 - 2014-01-04 03:39:56 UTC
ZynnLee Akkori wrote:
Ganking is the same thing as the 'knock out game'. Prepared aggressor against an unprepared victim. There is no honor there.

Why is one of the most complex and difficult to learn MMOs out there full of complete idiots who believe **** like this?
I don't get it.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)