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Sp CCP, how is that Marauder as a PvP ship concept working out?

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Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#81 - 2014-01-03 20:58:49 UTC
Fozzie,

Thanks for this info. Before Rubicon, I had spent weeks training for a Marauder only to find that my Machariel really still did a better job. I have since traded in both of my loot-pinata Machariels for 2x T2-fitted Vargurs. It finally feels like all that SP is being put to good use. Thanks.

Bacon makes us stronger
Dave Stark
#82 - 2014-01-03 20:59:11 UTC
i think the point is the same as it was when the changes were announced; marauders are already fine at pve, why don't ccp spend their time actually fixing something rather than just making something better at something it's already the best at?
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#83 - 2014-01-03 20:59:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:

Sort of like the wing-nut tea partiers.
They should be treated the same way.


The irony in the post is astounding. You're the conspiracy-theory-spouting wingnut!

Also lol, "only nullsec blobber t20 ccp cartel persons post of the forums."

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Pandora Barzane
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2014-01-03 22:17:26 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


Also since I know you'd be interested Disndale, 12% more highsec Incursion dungeons have been completed per day since Rubicon compared to the 12 weeks before Rubicon so we managed to do it all while making highsec Incursions more popular, not less.


this doesnt mean anything, the weeks before rubicon release the amount of accounts online was lot lower then the first weeks after rubicon release. so the increase of incursions in high sec could also be the simple fact that there were more people online then before.

what Im curious at if the amount of maurauders is increased in incursion fleets after rubicon release.
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#85 - 2014-01-03 23:27:15 UTC
I have deleted some rumor mongering from this thread,

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2014-01-03 23:53:20 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I'm back at the office today and doing some metrics research to get myself up to date on what trends emerged while I was on vacation, so I'll go ahead and share a few tidbits about this exact question.

If you compare the 6 weeks after Rubicon to the 12 weeks before Rubicon (running the numbers comparing to the 6 or 18 weeks before Rubicon give pretty much exactly the same results since Marauder use was very stable before Rubicon):

Both total PVP damage dealt by Marauders and the number of unique characters getting on a killmail with a Marauder per day are up by about 180% (almost 3x the old rates). Over the same time period the number of Marauders exploding has increased by about 160%.

Usage in PVE appears to have increased over that same period by closer to 60%.

It's still early, but I'm quite happy with these numbers and they fit within the (admittedly wide) range we expected at this point.
All Marauder activity is up across the board, with the majority still being PVE as one would expect with such an expensive ship. The increases on a percentage basis have been much higher for PVP activity since the changes have opened up PVP opportunities that are dramatically more desirable than the class enjoyed before Rubicon. PVE with Marauders is great, but it was also pretty great before so the increases are more modest.



Woudl be cvery nice if you could give us at least yearly a crunch on these numbers. THings that are not easy to see with own eyes. For example. What battleships dropped more in usage, wich ones (besided theobvious dominix) icnreased usage sicne the rebalance?

An overview of the results several months after the balance passes woudl be very interesting.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Garia666
CyberShield Inc
HYDRA RELOADED
#87 - 2014-01-04 00:04:13 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
marauders are great for pvp.

we went 2 vs 10

*snip* Posting of kill reports outside of the Crime & Punishment forum channel is prohibited. ISD Ezwal

and raped em.. its not fpr big gang warfare.. but for small gangs it works just great
Miasmos
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#88 - 2014-01-04 00:15:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Miasmos
Marauders in large fleets?

Not while drone assist. After drone assist is handled a Paladin fleet would be honour. 100km hellcats with spider tanking /neutralizer utility slots, 1min blink jump, sieged for EHP to bulldoze through the initial phase of fight where targets get blapped through logistics anyhow. After enemies are dwindled go to spider mode out of bastion with rep and blap targets.

Closest comparison would be navy apoc, paladin gains situational superpowers on it.
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2014-01-04 00:34:28 UTC
Here you go

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Plug in Baby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#90 - 2014-01-04 00:55:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Plug in Baby
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I
Both total PVP damage dealt by Marauders and the number of unique characters getting on a killmail with a Marauder per day are up by about 180% (almost 3x the old rates). Over the same time period the number of Marauders exploding has increased by about 160%.


I'm sorry but I can't understand how you are happy with the marauders role in PVP, especially not using these figures as any kind of support

This is similar to saying: "The rorqual's new 10% bonus to drone optimal range has resulted in a 3X the number of POS KMs while the number of deaths is up 160%. We are happy with its new role as a dedicated POS bash ship." 180% is a large increase, but if its usage is practically 0 before its hardly impressive.

Seriously how many marauders were being used in PVP before? The last time I remember seeing one out of highsec was probably Kessah's Kronos in OMS like 4+ years ago.

CCP Fozzie wrote:
In the 6 weeks immediately after Rubicon marauders dealt 159,640,990 (after resists are applied) points of damage in PVP, placing each of the four Marauders firmly in the middle of the pack when compared to faction and pirate battleships (their closest peers).


So lets look at this, 'firmly in the middle of the pack' when we consider the number of ships that are largely irrelevant in the pool you mentioned.

Relevant: Vindi, Bhaal, Mach, NAPOC, NEDDON, TFI, Nega: (7)
Irrelevant: RS, NH, PhoonFI, N scorp, N Raven, N Domi. (6)

This places the recently revamped ships just above a tonne of ships yet to experience teiricide that have practically 0 impact on high end PVP. This is before even considering that damage isn't the primary role for many of these ships (Bhaal etc..) while it is the sole role of the marauder.

Don't just accept statistics as validation without actually thinking about them. I can't believe in a community that thinks of itself as 'intelligent' how many people just accept some numbers as gospel.

Anyone using them as a serious PVP ship now is just doing it for novelty, I can't see any high-end fleet adoption of them in their current form and their solo role is niche at best. If they aren't supposed to be a PVP ship, fine but can we please stop calling them something they quite clearly not.

This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
Shantetha
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2014-01-04 01:14:32 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
General would be a much better place if Fozzie (or other CCP) jumped in with real numbers to squash the assumptions and bullshit more often.

Thank you Fozzie for helping out on this one.



Whelp he didnt actually post numbers. He posted percentages and implied numbers which means if i have that and 25 cents i can buy a gumball.

He needs to give real numbers how many marauders were used in PVP, PVE(missions), PVE(incursions) pre and post rubicon. Plug it in, nails it perfectly.

We want real data, not air quotes.


James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#92 - 2014-01-04 01:21:05 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
i think the point is the same as it was when the changes were announced; marauders are already fine at pve, why don't ccp spend their time actually fixing something rather than just making something better at something it's already the best at?

Marauders really weren't that great.
There were other platforms that clearly performed better at the same job, so really the only niche marauders actually had was that they could loot and salvage while performing a mission (something the Nightmare could also do as well, though that doesn't have the tractor beam range bonus).
They still can, although the loot part has been partially overtaken by the MTU. Marauders excel at mission running now, because they have more DPS, better damage application, better resistance to EWAR, and better mobility than before.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2014-01-04 01:23:02 UTC
Did the devs ever specifically say there were supposed to be use for PvP? I don't recall that. Active tanking, 1 billion isk ships with no RR doesn't seem to qualify them as PvP ships so I doubt that was the intention for them.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#94 - 2014-01-04 01:25:40 UTC
They specifically said the intent was to make them useful for PVP as well as PVE. They also want to give local rep a more active role in PVP, so that fits in with wanting to make marauders capable PVP ships.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Plug in Baby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2014-01-04 01:31:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Plug in Baby
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Did the devs ever specifically say there were supposed to be use for PvP? I don't recall that. Active tanking, 1 billion isk ships with no RR doesn't seem to qualify them as PvP ships so I doubt that was the intention for them.


Yeah this is the key point here, I don't really care if they remain a PVE hull, I am perfectly happy to continue ignoring their existence in the game (other than a small impact in ISK faucets). It's just worrying watching CCP try and call them something they are not, it just shows a disconnect between them and the game which is a little concerning.

Not to mention the desperate use silly statistics which makes them come across like a TV advert for some beauty product or a fear mongering article in a newspaper or the Daily Mail.

This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
SkyFlyer
The Last Hope
#96 - 2014-01-04 01:35:59 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
#75 kills in Vargur / #10 in Kronos/ Screw the other 2 cause they suck.

Either way PvP in Marauders is happening, just not big well because this happens:

and if you stick around too long this happens:

Either way only cause you don't see it, doesn't meanits not happening - PvPers in Marauders tend to keep to themselves since people like to blob!

But it is happening people!

Watch out for No. 3 of Pure Vargur Footage!!!!!!

PS: if you comment back and say why bother cause youll just get dread blapped please stfu get out and try before assuming crap!

On other hand Cheers for people mentioning me!

Removed killmails. Please only post killmails in Crime and Punishment, thank you. -ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#97 - 2014-01-04 01:38:43 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
They specifically said the intent was to make them useful for PVP as well as PVE. They also want to give local rep a more active role in PVP, so that fits in with wanting to make marauders capable PVP ships.

Fair enough.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Plug in Baby
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2014-01-04 01:45:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Plug in Baby
SkyFlyer wrote:
On other hand Cheers for people mentioning me!


Congratulations, but do you not feel a vindi or mach might have worked equally well?

The fact that one player is 'famous' for pvping in a particular hull is indicative that maybe that isn't common practice.

This is not a forum alt, this is a forum main.
SkyFlyer
The Last Hope
#99 - 2014-01-04 01:58:51 UTC
Plug in Baby wrote:
SkyFlyer wrote:
On other hand Cheers for people mentioning me!


Congratulations, but do you not feel a vindi or mach might have worked equally well?

The fact that one player is 'famous' for pvping in a particular hull is indicative that maybe that isn't common practice.



Am not sure which time, but no not one bit whatsoever.

Ofc I do fly machariel aswell or vindicator but not as often, but the Tank on the Marauder make it exceptionally easy to tank an entire fleet :Please see my BWF fight here: , while a mach or a vindi will break pretty easy.

Not to mention once you take a look at the bastion module you will see why using a marauder is very nice.

E.g No TD's (very big shooting smaller ships), No jamming(god i hate jamming) no TP'ing for those pesky Phoenixes(LOL)...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#100 - 2014-01-04 06:38:35 UTC
Plug in Baby wrote:
SkyFlyer wrote:
On other hand Cheers for people mentioning me!


Congratulations, but do you not feel a vindi or mach might have worked equally well?

The fact that one player is 'famous' for pvping in a particular hull is indicative that maybe that isn't common practice.


Few people chose to pvp in BS solo or in small gangs due to many myths and of those that do fewer still will pay this kind of pricetag. These ships were always going to be used in small numbers in pvp much like the vindicator.