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EVE is PVE
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Paranoid Loyd
#41 - 2014-01-03 18:12:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Meyr wrote:
Sorry - I don't count ganking as PVP - it's a PK activity, pure and simple.

That stated, what else do you term as 'PVP paying for itself?'


How is it not PVP, when I take another players loot?

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Karak Terrel
Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER
#42 - 2014-01-03 18:24:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Karak Terrel
Meyr wrote:
EVE is what you make of it - but it's all paid for by PVE. No PVE, no PVP.

EVE is a PvP centered game that has non-instantiated/isolated PvE elements that build the bottom of the food chain.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2014-01-03 18:26:13 UTC
...so? Who cares?

Dodixie > Hek
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#44 - 2014-01-03 19:06:22 UTC
Ehhh, what's 'real' piracy? I define it as PVP with purely profit in mind. Camping the known route of a mark, cloaking up inside a DED or exploration site, or more plainly shoot everything on an undock in lowsec.

We'll probably be conflicted about whether or not ganking is PVP, but I'll include it as a piratical (or rather, terrorist) activity. In my mind the actual gank is merely the outcome of another PVP activity, scouting and the gathering of intel. The person getting ganked wins if his losses are less then he accounted for. If efficiency is not affected much in the long run, the gankers 'lose' by failing to stop economic growth. You can get ganked and still 'win' by forcing up the cost and effort needed for the gank to take place. It's just different metrics but both parties can affect them, albeit asymmetrical.

To be honest... I know industrials that are in fact, way worse in terms of entitlement and threadmilling then many a mission runner. Grind, build, sell, grind, build sell... where does it end, and what is the purpose? I understand chilling out, shooting some crosses or even hurting rocks, guilty of it myself on both accounts. But there's an underlying idea: to get ships and mods to do pew pew in name of my alliance and corp, and eventually conquer something from another group. That can be a moon, poco, or overconfident trashtalking shineys that need a good old fashioned wardec.

PVP and PVE will have to live with each other whether or not people like it. The pure PVP-er is blowing much more IRL money on the game and probably won't get space-rich. The pure PVE-er will never know the joy of conquest despite his many assets and fat wallet. Those that find a nice balance in between, play the economy as well as the battlefield, are usually the more pleasant players with a broad interest and knowledge base. Maybe because they can't really hate on either because they enjoy both? Smile
Alex Sorensen
Obsidian Reclamation Enterprise
#45 - 2014-01-03 19:52:13 UTC
Meyr wrote:
Sorry - I don't count ganking as PVP - it's a PK activity, pure and simple.

That stated, what else do you term as 'PVP paying for itself?'


PK is still PVP....

You make an argument that this game is based on PVE, and then disregard a major part of the PVP aspect of the game, simply because you don't agree with how it's done.

sig
Ginger Barbarella
#46 - 2014-01-03 19:54:12 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Controlling the rocks to be mined that are needed to build the ships is PvP.



"Rocks I mine are free!!"

*insert eye-roll emoticon here"

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Ginger Barbarella
#47 - 2014-01-03 19:56:18 UTC
Alex Sorensen wrote:
Meyr wrote:
Sorry - I don't count ganking as PVP - it's a PK activity, pure and simple.

That stated, what else do you term as 'PVP paying for itself?'


PK is still PVP....

You make an argument that this game is based on PVE, and then disregard a major part of the PVP aspect of the game, simply because you don't agree with how it's done.


Let's be realistic: saying miner ganking is peeveepee is really like saying a large 30-year old dude knocking an old woman to the ground and stealing her pension check is a street brawl. It's really just stupid that people still say it.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#48 - 2014-01-03 19:57:53 UTC
Nerf skill points Evil

Bacon makes us stronger
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#49 - 2014-01-03 19:59:29 UTC
Alex Sorensen wrote:
Meyr wrote:
Sorry - I don't count ganking as PVP - it's a PK activity, pure and simple.

That stated, what else do you term as 'PVP paying for itself?'


PK is still PVP....

You make an argument that this game is based on PVE, and then disregard a major part of the PVP aspect of the game, simply because you don't agree with how it's done.

ganking might as well be ratting

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Logical 101
PowerCow Farm
#50 - 2014-01-03 20:04:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Logical 101
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Ehhh, what's 'real' piracy? I define it as PVP with purely profit in mind. Camping the known route of a mark, cloaking up inside a DED or exploration site, or more plainly shoot everything on an undock in lowsec.

"Real" piracy requires creativity and honor.

A lot of people call themselves pirates, but there have only ever been a certain number of them who actually are legitimate pirates. If you can't efficiently catch and ransom people (and uphold your end of the bargain when the ransom is paid), you're not a pirate; you're a **** with guns just like every other **** with guns in this game.

Pirates stick to certain codes of conduct. Stray too much, and you're just a camper, ganker or straight-up PvPer.
Ivan Krividus
Cold Lazarus Inc
The-Expanse
#51 - 2014-01-03 20:07:15 UTC
Meyr wrote:
Yes, I know some of you are going to threaten revenge for (insert whatever you want here).

Too bad.

Yes, it really is that simple.


Watchlisted.

Too bad.

Its going to be less PvE than ever for you , at least.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#52 - 2014-01-03 20:15:18 UTC
Logical 101 wrote:
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
Ehhh, what's 'real' piracy? I define it as PVP with purely profit in mind. Camping the known route of a mark, cloaking up inside a DED or exploration site, or more plainly shoot everything on an undock in lowsec.

"Real" piracy requires creativity and honor.

A lot of people call themselves pirates, but there have only ever been a certain number of them who actually are legitimate pirates. If you can't efficiently catch and ransom people (and uphold your end of the bargain when the ransom is paid), you're not a pirate; you're a **** with guns just like every other **** with guns in this game.

Pirates stick to certain codes of conduct. Stray too much, and you're just a camper, ganker or straight-up PvPer.


To that I say:
Captain Barbossa wrote:
First, your return to shore was not part of our negotiations nor our agreement so I must do nothing. And secondly, you must be a pirate for the pirate's code to apply and you're not. And thirdly, the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules. Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner .


Big smile

For some reason I always just wanted an excuse to post that.
Xrock
#53 - 2014-01-03 20:23:44 UTC
Pvp operates at an expected loss, Pve operates at an expected gain.

If criteria are not met in satisfactory manner there is a descent. hello forum QQ you must be doing something wrong
Logical 101
PowerCow Farm
#54 - 2014-01-03 20:24:16 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
For some reason I always just wanted an excuse to post that.

Lol

I'm glad I could provide one.
Alex Sorensen
Obsidian Reclamation Enterprise
#55 - 2014-01-03 20:34:01 UTC
Ginger Barbarella wrote:
Alex Sorensen wrote:
Meyr wrote:
Sorry - I don't count ganking as PVP - it's a PK activity, pure and simple.

That stated, what else do you term as 'PVP paying for itself?'


PK is still PVP....

You make an argument that this game is based on PVE, and then disregard a major part of the PVP aspect of the game, simply because you don't agree with how it's done.


Let's be realistic: saying miner ganking is peeveepee is really like saying a large 30-year old dude knocking an old woman to the ground and stealing her pension check is a street brawl. It's really just stupid that people still say it.


Ganking is still done by one player(s) to another. There is literally no PVE aspect of ganking, and ganking is a big part of this game.

sig
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#56 - 2014-01-03 20:38:04 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
what if there were new pvp missions that would give players competing objectives but for the same mission...

take the damsel...

player A. has to save the damsel

player B. has to make sure she stays put.

basically you are looking at fancy arena missions that will force the players to fight but the rewards would be worth the risk.
Player A get's blobbed.
Player A comes on forum screaming that the missions are stupid.

Basically the same thing that happens with FW.


only those who are in the mission can activate the gate. no fleet members can join in... strictly solo

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Xrock
#57 - 2014-01-03 20:49:42 UTC
Ganking is PvP, OP and others.

Prematurely mining in a shiny new hulk you just trained in a fringe highsec system doesn't negate this despite your greatest ambitions.

When I started to read this thread I was sided w/ PvE as core of Eve, but upon realizing this truth [one that shouldn't be too difficult to see] that PvP is the core, whether one likes it or despises it. Ask any overly ambitious hulk pilot if their gameplay gets drastically changed after a few hulk losses to dirt cheap destroyers.

More simplistically, be it technical, highsec doesn't exclude pvp activities despite concord. If this isn't a clear enough indicator that CCP does wish assured destruction [at some point of carelessness] then you need to rethink your income/asset activity as well as knowledge of the game as a whole.

And let's remember, always, this is a game and not everyone can devote similar energies/time to amassing wealth and likewise not everyone has the prowess/desire to see things explode. Live and let Die. Fly safe o/
Snagletooth Johnson
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2014-01-03 20:56:12 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Controlling the rocks to be mined that are needed to build the ships is PvP.


Exactly, you PvP so you can do high end PvE activies in safety. Therefore, Sov PvE is the real end game, and PvP is just the mechanic to get there.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#59 - 2014-01-03 20:56:21 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Meyr wrote:
NO ONE can pay for their PVP by only doing PVP.

Have you even tried?


Ganking pays ok. Fighting targets that fight back are usually not profitable.

And you wouldn't want to be called a coward would you?

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Alex Sorensen
Obsidian Reclamation Enterprise
#60 - 2014-01-03 21:01:06 UTC
Snagletooth Johnson wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
Controlling the rocks to be mined that are needed to build the ships is PvP.


Exactly, you PvP so you can do high end PvE activies in safety. Therefore, Sov PvE is the real end game, and PvP is just the mechanic to get there.


Sov PVE can only be achieved if there is a proper PVP infrastructure to keep the PVE capsuleers safe. So it can be a mix of both PVE and PVP, but it is not strictly PVE.

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