Player Features and Ideas Discussion

"Covert" for a reason, picky I know but I can't help myself.

As to your proposal, I can't support it. I like it in theory but all I can see happening is a never ending stream of cloaky haulers being cyno'd across New Eden delivering small but high value cargos in complete safety.

On top of that there are few enough incentives for HiSec residents to leave EvE's shallow end as it is and allowing access to the nicer toys would just remove one more no matter how minor it may seem.

don't get your panties in a bunch. CCP's job is to create good gameplay above all else. Hisec has rules, and CCP has seen fit to consider what makes good gameplay when adjusting war mechanics. Also, Fair chase doesn't mean fair fight.

Don't be prejudiced. Plenty of savvy people live in hisec. Wardecs are thrown out so casually that there isn't always a reason to corp hop or log-off forever just because you get one. Watch lists, killboard histories, all of them can give information to avoid being an easy target without avoiding the game. Such as, you got wardecced by people that run multiple concurrent wardecs and 98% of their kills are in niarja/uedama, Jita or Amarr.

Or are you saying that hisec carebears aren't already easy enough? If you're sick of flying 15 jumps to break up a mining op, only to be empty handed because you were spotted two jumps out, then too bad and better luck next time. Don't ask for a means to engage from multiple systems away using a neutral (pre-retribution, you could do this to catch people that had both scouts and watched local by having the neutral join corp in space. It was OP, and it was nerfed. The only way to do this now is with a suicide tackle).


Mercs? This is a joke right? wardeccers are usually thrilled to get more targets for their money. If the attackers have any history of using blops drops in hisec, it will just force people to drop corp rather than tough it out and just watch local. I know a few mercs might do it for free to get some blops kills, but they won't do it just to kill a few bombers and a recon, which they might not even get.



Lol my objections are not reasonable because I object and therefore am a lazy carebear. Listen up, hisec is the one place where you have stations to dock in everywhere and also won't get blobbed by a random gang 3 times your size. Fly real ships. If you need covert cynos to get kills in hisec, or are otherwise using covert ships to fight war-targets (as the aggressor), then you're pretty much a terrible scrub.

Also, aside from receiving wardecs while in null, all of my wardec experience is entirely from the side of the guys declaring war and hunting the miners and the missioners. Shadowing targets with neutral alts, locator agents, probing them down in missions, killing hulks, catching orcas. So much of it relied on avoiding spooking the target, or being one system ahead of them without showing in local, or getting a warp-in prior to entering system. If I could just use my neutral to light a covert cyno, then killing anyone, anywhere, would just be way too damn easy. A wardec is already a very powerful deterrent against PVE, it doesn't need to be made an absolute deterrent by adding in neutral covert cynos.

Covert cyno's in highsec allow for super safe movement of small goods in and out of nullsec/lowsec via covert bridging.

Bridging mechanics also dramatically alter engagement dynamics, creating a means to teleport large numbers of unscoutable ships directly into the combat zone.

At the end of the day, I don't see a good reason to bring covert cynos to highsec.



p.s. If you see a covert cyno is lit on grid, you can right click on the cyno and bookmark it... and then warp to it at your leisure.

How will mercenaries protect me from suicide ganks or neutral covert hot drops?

Sorry, all you folks hungering for easier hi sec kills will just have to keep camping stations for your T3-on-T1-hauler kills.

Bridging adds routine to the process and consumes fuel. Also, you need a blackops pilot plus at least 2 covert cyno alts.
Covert movement of goods is already pretty safe even without bridging: you just use covert haulers in the empire space and covert int-nullified T3-s in nullsec.


Offtopic: in null people love to drop capitals even on frig-size gangs of 10 people. Nullsec and its problems is worth a huge several hundred page threadnaught by itself. But here - it's an offtopic.


If you're a valid target for suicide gank - you failed it. If you're in the same time a valid and an easy target - you failed it twice.
And btw covert ships are a bad choice for suicide ganking: they have relatively high price and low damage, while ships for suicide ganks must have the lowest possible price with the highest damage.

The carebears are saying no, because they want it to be fair play during a wardec and that covert cynos would be op.
Wardeccers are saying it'll be awesome because it'll add another combat aspect to high sec.

As already said, covert cynos would fit perfectly into hs warfare, why?
Because it'll be the exact same thing as ls/null, you can only shoot at your wts, unless you want to suicide gank(let's face it, that would be expensive).

The majority of people that don't want to fight already just don't play during the period, which results in:
- them being told not to play during the wd.
- them simply just being docked all day.
- they leave corp

The thing people seem to forget is that you can, unlike null/ls you know when you're in a danger zone, when you're wardecced.
There's already tool in hs to not be at war, if you don't want to be a wartarget you can simply just leave corp, or not play during the duration of the war, then return once said war is over.
We've got over 150 wars, and have seen people just leave corp and similar.

The only reasons i can find not to:
- is because of neutral logi (But they're going suspect anyway, and blown as logi after the engagement)
- is because of neutrals liting the cyno (however that's already used massively in 0.0 and low sec)

Cynos are way more efficient than covert cynos in terms of escalations because covert ships tend to do less damage than non-covert ships.

As i see it, it would add a huge purpose to covert cynos, simply because you'd only be able to do them in hs, and it'd open them up to corps/alliances that aren't big enough to venture into ls/null to actually do these drops, or people that just want to try and do it.

As this is very split between two groups, the carebears and the 'elite hs pvpers that only do station games' it's never going to be something we'll agree on.

However it would give covert cynos are bigger purpose, and it would be an addition to the game, since this mechanic could only be used against you during a war, so you'd know when it's possible. (unless ofc it's being used for haulers)

If it's used for haulers though to lit cynos , you'd easily required people to have more accounts subbed to get around, so yay more iskies for CCP!

+1 Superbump.

Why ?

Because.

This is such an abusable mechanic, stop getting blinkered into looking at 'Oh look at all the carebears we can gank' and look at what the Low/Null alliances can do with it....
You know that Blops gang roaming your space. They just jumped back into high sec, and you don't have a wardec on them so they are now 100% safe.
As was mentioned, any high value goods, Cyno straight into the trade hubs now. No option of playing whack a mole & hoping to get lucky on blockade runners coming from low at gates.
And I'm not a blops pilot,... goodness knows what an experienced one could use this for.

While certainly true, I imagine the empires would not appreciate their use, and thus if they could be used, anyone lighting one or arriving by one would be instantly concorded.

And the biggest issue would be that people could instantly jump from a to b with high value goods in covert haulers or bombers. No longer would you need to haul your high value blueprints (for example) from purchase location to your offices, you could simply jump them there though low population systems, bypassing all gates.

neutral logi and covert cynos still do happen in low sec and 00 what would be the difference in hisec.

just give the cyno pilot a suspect and shootable by anybody in the same manner that the new deployables are.