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Crime & Punishment

 
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High sec pirates and mission runners, be aware of this tactic.

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Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#161 - 2014-01-03 17:07:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Jenn aSide wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:

No it's spectacularly sensible, and full credit for CCP on not compromising on this core principle.

What would be spectacularly dumb would be "fixing" this feature and treating mission runners as some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with, unlike every other profession in EVE.

How the hell are you a CSM?

By saying sensible like that without trying to coddle people by being overly diplomatic towards their bad ideas.


And exactly this, I voted for Mal not because he was in 'INIT', but because he 'Gets It' (lol). Blunt, straight forward, no BS, just raw truth. Truth till it hurts.

Sooooo many squishy, squeamish , oversensative 'mommy he hurt mah feelins' types around and can deal with how Mal slings it it's really kind of crazy to me given the nature of the game we all play ie you'd think these folks that can't handle a little meaningless internet rough housing would make game choices other than EVE.

*paid for by the committee to re-elect Malcanis whether he likes it or not*


Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough in this thread already with that clearly flawed thinking? I really wouldn't be surprised at all if you voted to re-elect Bush. The CSMs statement has already been noted as being one made in ignorance of the facts.

Because removing the ability for others to steal/blow up your required mission items DOES NOT "make mission runners some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with", as ninja salvaging and stealing mission loot are still going to be options.

Stealing/blowing up mission required items is over the top and beyond the norm of acceptable forms of pirate/victim interaction as the penalties for the mission runner are heavy whist the cost of failure on the part of the pirate is practically non-existent on top of being extremely easy to do. As others have mentioned, sociopaths will be drawn to these kind of mechanics that will reward them by punishing their unsuspecting victims so severely without putting themselves at any risk.

Next.
Logical 101
PowerCow Farm
#162 - 2014-01-03 17:19:08 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough in this thread already with that clearly flawed thinking? I really wouldn't be surprised at all if you voted to re-elect Bush.

You were doing well. Yes, you were trolling, but you generated a great conversation here.

Don't spoil it with obvious, pejorative non sequiturs.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#163 - 2014-01-03 17:21:20 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:

Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough in this thread already with that clearly flawed thinking? I really wouldn't be surprised at all if you voted to re-elect Bush. The CSMs statement has already been noted as being one made in ignorance of the facts.


Fact:

"Please note that the possibility of losing mission items through theft, damage, sale, or other means is considered an inherent risk in accepting work from agents"-GM

Quote:

Because removing the ability for others to steal/blow up your required mission items DOES NOT "make mission runners some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with", as ninja salvaging and stealing mission loot are still going to be options.

Stealing/blowing up mission required items is over the top and beyond the norm of acceptable forms of pirate/victim interaction as the penalties for the mission runner are heavy whist the cost of failure on the part of the pirate is practically non-existent on top of being extremely easy to do. As others have mentioned, sociopaths will be drawn to these kind of mechanics that will punish their victims severely without putting themselves in any risk.

Next.


You can dislike the reality of the situation all you like, But you're wrong. So wrong CCP doesn't even open your petitions anymore lol. you should not be mad at me because your pitiful attempt to drum up support on the forums failed.

If you had any sense, you'd chalk it up to a lesson learned.
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#164 - 2014-01-03 17:25:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Jenn aSide wrote:


You can dislike the reality of the situation all you like, But you're wrong. So wrong CCP doesn't even open your petitions anymore lol. you should not be mad at me because your pitiful attempt to drum up support on the forums failed.

If you had any sense, you'd chalk it up to a lesson learned.


you were quoting the CSM, toting his statement as the pinnacle of wisdom in this thread . He was easily proven wrong. And now you are saying what exactly? Cool

Know when you have lost and find something more productive to do. Your continual blithering is only making you look more pathetic.
Chancey Pants
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#165 - 2014-01-03 18:05:17 UTC
OP, I would like to know why you feel you should be able to run a High sec mission which grants a reward worth over a billion isk without any risks?

Honestly I think that is way too high of a reward for a high sec mission period. So how's about they fix your problem by replacing said item with some 10 mil junk. Problem solved right? I mean 10 mil is more along the lines with what a High sec mission should get. Your scary pirates would be less tempted to camp that system and you can run your crappy mission in peace just like all the other LvL 4 care bears.

If you want balanced risk verse rewards you have to be completely fair. If you are running a mission in high sec making hand over fist bank then there has to be some risk associated with it. In this mission your risk is provided by said scary pirates and it seems to be tailored specifically for that. If you can not adapt to overcome then you fail and don't get your rewards.

I really don't understand why you feel you should be able to run such a valuable mission without having to put in any effort. If you honestly believe there is no effort or risk involved on the pirates part I say you should try your hand at it to see how it works out for you. I promise it is not as easy as you believe. It takes time, preparation, practice, and lots of patience. I think you would fail on each of those catorgories.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#166 - 2014-01-03 18:29:58 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
you were quoting the CSM, toting his statement as the pinnacle of wisdom in this thread . He was easily proven wrong.
Was he?

Nerf Burger wrote:
Know when you have lost and find something more productive to do. Your continual blithering is only making you look more pathetic.
Was this irony?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#167 - 2014-01-03 18:37:40 UTC
I've never run these COSMOS missions. How long do they take? Is it pretty much a sure thing that pirates are going after your final loot?

Bacon makes us stronger
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#168 - 2014-01-03 18:41:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Carmen Electra wrote:
I've never run these COSMOS missions. How long do they take? Is it pretty much a sure thing that pirates are going after your final loot?


It's not really loot, it's a mission item. They vary WILDLY in the amount of time they take.

The difficulty arises because in order to do the next mission in a COSMOS chain it usually requires a specific item or items from a prior mission. Weird, named mission crap...And all COSMOS missions are one time only.

You only get one shot at it, then you never get to run it again.

I think that's the main complaint going around -- that hypothetically somebody who has never run the mission before can get burned by somebody who is just camping the system and knows where to go and what item to grab...And then they are forever more locked out of the COSMOS mission chain unless they pay some exorbitant fee for the mission item or perpetuate the act by stealing from another person.

The heart of the complaint is valid, but people are heavily exaggerating the situation.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#169 - 2014-01-03 18:49:59 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Carmen Electra wrote:
I've never run these COSMOS missions. How long do they take? Is it pretty much a sure thing that pirates are going after your final loot?


It's not really loot, it's a mission item. They vary WILDLY in the amount of time they take.

The difficulty arises because in order to do the next mission in a COSMOS chain it usually requires a specific item or items from a prior mission. Weird, named mission crap...And all COSMOS missions are one time only.

You only get one shot at it, then you never get to run it again.

I think that's the main complaint going around -- that hypothetically somebody who has never run the mission before can get burned by somebody who is just camping the system and knows where to go and what item to grab...And then they are forever more locked out of the COSMOS mission chain unless they pay some exorbitant fee for the mission item or perpetuate the act by stealing from another person.

The heart of the complaint is valid, but people are heavily exaggerating the situation.


No it is not valid. It is the players responsibility to protect himself, his loot and to know what he's doing. One simply has to google " eve cosmos" to get a wealth of information on the subject.

I've run all high sec cosmos + amarr and minmatar low sec cosmos and have lost items to 'pirates' (in both cases, because i was too lazy to ask someone about the mission and so did not react in time to the threat). Lesson learned (and more important, responsibility for my previous screw ups taken) and by the time I got around to getting the chain that ends with Michi (or the chain that ends in Minmatar low sec and gives another really nice implant), I knew what to expect. i've run the chain that ends with michi 3 more times on other characters and had zero problems.

In other words, it's like the rest of EVE, its about what YOU do, not what the game or ccp does for you. The fact that COSMOS is a one time thing means it's MORE on you as a player to get it right, not less.
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#170 - 2014-01-03 19:02:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Carmen Electra wrote:
I've never run these COSMOS missions. How long do they take? Is it pretty much a sure thing that pirates are going after your final loot?


You need above 6.0 in standings with Caldari faction to get the mission from Zabonn Michi, located in NPC hub Rush Town Ruins in the Otomainen system. Most COSMOS missions you will need to loot an item that respawns in a plex in a given system but there is one mission, Zabonn Michi's in particular, where you need to loot a mission required item, and unlike normal missions, it won't reset at downtime and you get one chance. Some of the other COSMOS can take a long time or are very fast since you need rare drops from plexes but others are the same as regular missions. The COSMOS are usually harder than normal missions too, Zabon Michi's "Lost Love" mission being the hardest, dealing massive DPS.

You can expect pirates to go after your Wei Todaki only if you are aware that high-sec pirates are aware that the mission can't be reset on downtime and that you will get one shot at the item and thus makes it worth using for extortion. AND only if you are aware that the end reward of the chain is worth a lot of isk. The mission to get Wei Todaki itself isn't worth much if I remember correctly, so additionally you would have to have researched the end reward of the chain out of game to know it was going to be valuable enough to be worth stealing, assuming that you already know that it is even possible for other people to steal your required mission items. If you should happen to start the mission and someone came into your system and started scanning, you would have to warp out of the mission and wait for them to leave, and if they waited till downtime like the ever-present alts in Otomainen do just for this purpose, you would just be screwed, or be forced into competing in net connection with anyone said pirates call in to help, that is if the pirate(s) do not just decide to blow up Wei Todaki out of spite if they thought they might not get it. If it were in null sec or low, it wouldn't be a problem of course. However, there is ultimately nothing you can effectively do in high sec to counter this abuse of mechanics.

The "pirate" and probable sociopath has all the power and takes no risks, low SP requirements with endless opportunities for repeats by simply camping the same system with an alt, whereas the person doing the mission will potentially pay an enormous price in time and what have you with only one chance per character.
Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
#171 - 2014-01-03 19:24:47 UTC
Missions can be fun





I like EVE.

Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#172 - 2014-01-03 19:44:48 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
Meh, I have yet to see a GM refusing to reset a mission for practically no reason whatsoever. It costs them nothing.

On the other hand, COSMOS must hold some kind of trophy for being the EVE feature that has been neglected for the longest period of time without being scrapped. Any change to this, would be quite surprising.




And this is where incursions are headed. The last change for incursions took a huge protest and "mom nuking".

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#173 - 2014-01-03 23:06:37 UTC
Why? Incursions are fine. They're more than fine, actually, they're ridiculously easy streams of income at little risk.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Pipa Porto
#174 - 2014-01-03 23:20:17 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Why? Incursions are fine. They're more than fine, actually, they're ridiculously easy streams of income at little risk.



But what if a Logi DCs?!?!?!?!?!!?!

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#175 - 2014-01-03 23:26:52 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:


Stealing/blowing up mission required items is over the top and beyond the norm of acceptable forms of pirate/victim interaction


Well, CCP says otherwise, so NOPE.

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#176 - 2014-01-03 23:29:36 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
blurrdy blurr blurr look it's a bunch of words


So what you're essentially saying is that the mission runner should not have to do any research into the mission they are running.

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#177 - 2014-01-03 23:30:54 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

And this is where incursions are headed. The last change for incursions took a huge protest and "mom nuking".


Muffinnnn.....

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
#178 - 2014-01-03 23:38:21 UTC
Moving this from General Discussion to Crime & Punishment.

EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative ※ EVE Illuminati ※ Fiction Adept

@CCP_Eterne ※ @EVE_LiveEvents
Pipa Porto
#179 - 2014-01-04 00:04:52 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
Moving this from General Discussion to Crime & Punishment.



Whinging is a crime.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#180 - 2014-01-04 04:30:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
By the way, the snarky remarks from CSM posted in this thread is a typical example of a self serving attitude that's only concerned with issues that affect themselves
Pointing out glaringly obvious flaw is someone's argumentation is not really snarky. Oh, and if you dislike that attitude so much, why is it the only one you ever adopt?

Probably the same reason why you constantly spout irrelevant one-liners with a sarcastic pompous attitude.


Alavaria Fera wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
By the way, the snarky remarks from CSM posted in this thread is a typical example of a self serving attitude that's only concerned with issues that affect themselves

By the way, the snarky remarks from Nerf Burger posted in this thread is a typical example of a self serving attitude that's only concerned with issues that affect themselves

Good grief, you're just all kinds of fail, especially since Nerf Burger didn't even make the remark about the CSM. I did and if you think Nerf Burger is my alt, you'd better think again.

DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle