EVE General Discussion

Hrm, there may be merit to the OP.

From the CSM 8 minutes:
Affinity: "Novices that follow the 'traditional path' tend to churn out of the game. Those that follow the PvE/Builder path retain at a higher rate. Players who go from Novice to Aggressor (pure PvP) tend to filter out of the game."

So where did you, or your enemy get your ship from? Did another PVP player give it to you?

:D

And yes, I'm just being picky for the sake of it.

stop making terrible incorrect generalizations. I've not even played that many MMO's, but PVE content was always entirely optional in guild wars, as an example.



On the macro level, yes, on the individual level, not necessarily. But you keep repeating this as if people were claiming pve didn't exist. What's the point here?

Real piracy, conquest of POCOs and moons. Eve is a game where PVE supports PVP, granted, as there are industrial processes that make using them desirable in the first place. Simple truth however is that all this PVE serves to generate PVP, and PVP can be used to secure yourself a nice little space to PVE.

Ratting is PVE? Tell that to the guy that ratted Clone Tags in my favourite system. Mining is PVE? Then you won't need that hardener... PVP is intertwined with everything and there is no escape. Ganking is legit PVP in my eyes, if I wish to wage an economic war against an entity that refuses to leave hisec I have a choice between wardeccing or ganking. Up-front or sneaky-surprise, it's a gameplay choice.

Sure, the guy grinding away all day has every right to enjoy his game the way he wants too. It's just as legit as my moronic, short-sighted, and stupidly egotistical sneering at those evil, lazy, cowardly, and dirty mission-runners that sell X-Types. I don't mind that they run missions. I mind that the majority does nothing else, and does not stand for anything but themselves.

My true gripe isn't with PVE, it's with the absolutely horrible mentality that a lot of mission runners have. I find it hard to not be condescending about someone that only plays for their own gain, and cries when he can't grind his ISK to play for free this month. I'm an annual subscriber, so these people just tick me off with their egoistic whining and autistic expectations.

love the rage of all the angry leet peeveepee-ers. everybody knows the goons are the king of PVE.

uh no, but I'd claim that it's PVE.

The point I was making which I think you missed was that all PVP requires PVE since that's where everything comes from. Unless you PVP in a rookie ship collecting only what you can from killing other players, you require PVE.

I haven't seen 'real piracy' in a while (howdy, Tuskers & friends! Been a while!) unless you count those asshats in Decon relying upon the storyline agent next door sending them a steady stream of noobs. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I haven't seen it - most of the time, I travel lowsec just like hisec, with no issues, and rat for tags when I feel like it - I just don't do it next door to hisec - most pirates don't venture deep into lowsec unless they're doing PVE stuff, too, it seems.

Perhaps a bit of definition might be in order:

PVP - two or more players engaging in a contest wherein everyone has the opportunity DURING THE FIGHT to destroy their opponent. This includes dueling, war decs, low sec piracy, nullsec fights (hey, ten-on-one, the solo guy can still take a few with him!), fleet fights, etc., even catching a mission-runner in a mission boat where they shouldn't be - everyone here has a chance.

Ganking - a contest wherein the VICTIM has no opportunity to engage their attacker. Hostilities are initiated solely at the discretion of the attacker, and the defender has no recourse, apart from being able to absorb enough damage that Concord will kill their opponent before they, themselves, are destroyed.

There's nothing wrong with being a good thief (see: Guiding Hand Social Club), but don't pretend that ganking is PVP. It is PK (Player Killer). It's nothing like a group of Stealth Bombers ambushing my ship - I can still fight back, and maybe get a kill before they destroy me.

As for the 'entitled' attitude of mission-runners, I understand both sides of that coin. I mission run for ISK. I've also scouted war targets who were mission running. That said, until they alter missions to where a PVP-capable ship can successfully run missions, mission-runners are going to continue to complain that they are at a significant disadvantage.

EVE is essentially a cooperative game. However, solo playstyle is still viable. Maybe people find it relaxing to target red crosses and fire, imagining them to be the cause of their stresses. I could have gone down the path taken by many small industrial corporations, one account, one two-person industry corp with a solo trader for buying & selling.

Are the industrialists any less self-centered than the mission-runner? I don't think so - they're just two different paths towards a common goal - ISK. It's just easier to find the mission-runner. Their assets are on public display. The assets of a tiny industrialist are in the blueprints, and maybe a faction tower, unseen and unnoticed by almost everyone.

Food for thought.

Ransoms.

You can make a great living in a small pirate gang hitting low sec mission targets and fleecing them for their ships and pods. If done correctly, a really juicy target can yield many hundreds of millions.

And it's not a pipe dream. Pirate crews have been doing this since the bad old days.

8/10 for the thread. At least it's a good foundation for discussion.

Those currently battling over the Drone Regions might beg to differ with you, but your point is well taken.

Yes, we need both sides of EVE. I simply have become disgusted with the oft-repeated line of "EVE is PVP, or you're 'Doing It Wrong!(tm)". The 'my way, or wrong' attitude is intolerant of those who aren't dedicated to bashing other players.

eve is what u want it to be