Warfare & Tactics

What are you talking about? A neut doesn't have any advantage when entering a plex you are in?!

In fact you are the one with an advantage. YOU can decide whether you want to stick around and engage, pull range and see what their reaction/intentions are or just run screaming like a little child complaining about how 'hard' it is to live in low sec!

There is absolutely no difference from a neut entering a plex to a WT if there are multiple people in local and you can't tell who is coming in. If a neut comes into a plex it is exactly the same as if you met at a celestial or an asteroid belt. Nothing different.

YOU have the advantage by being in a plex. You can select the plex size so that you don't get over shipped, you can select YOUR preferred combat range should YOU decide to engage them.

Where is the advantage to a neutral? Sec status hit upon first shot? Bollocks! whoever shoots first gets the penalty therefore no advantage to either side. It is up to YOU to decide on how YOU want to act and live with the consequences. Man up and live with it.

FW plexs are designed to give areas to pvp in, in a ship size restricted environment to allow the low SP players a more leveled playing field. If you can't handle the pvp generated by FW plex's then I suggest you take your blankie and go boot up your wow account again. And if you think neutrals aren't part of FW then you need to rethink where you are operating. You are in Low Sec FFS. **** happens out here. Anyone can attack anyone, anywhere, anytime. They just deal with the results of their actions. I suggest you learn to do the same.

Or just whine and ***** when you get your arse handed to you as you have been I suppose See you in space, hopefully

Look you lot.... ...this thread was created because of one point. Sec status hit.


There are no real advantages or disadvantages to the actual fight, other than what you create within the parameters of the game, if you choose to agress first.


The point is I have signed up to a War Dec against the other factions, so that I can fight against them without penalty. This takes place in low sec (no choice). This takes place predominantley in FW complex's (hence the subject). I can log in and get a fight in a short amount of time and I do not need to spend time doing PvE because FW has it all built into one. You can become moderately up to very self-sufficient (depending on the amount of time you spend gaining LP against the amount of time you spend blowing up) all within a small zone of New Eden.

For a player with limited game time (yes me) the reason I log on is to get together with friends or to go solo and fight targets qucikly on my doorstep.

So far I have seen no justification as to WHY I should take a Sec Status hit for a fight with a neutral ship that has entered a Faction War complex. A complex where I am waiting hoping it will be one or more of the WT that are shown in local. The neutral has invaded our warzone. If they do that I should be able to shoot them without a sec status hit.

I have seen no valid argument as to how this disadvantages the neutral (who has already chosen to agress the target inside, without joining FW and therefore to go suspect).


The fact that I have to take a sec status hit, more often than not, is because it is more likely that a neut PvPer will come into the plex than a WT. It means that I will eventually be forced to stop PvPing to go and work on improving my sec status again. This leads quickly to boredom and quickly to logging. I am not going to run multiple accounts to go to a trade hub.


The "HTFU" throw away argument just does not wash it. You should be encouraging play styles other than your own. It is a game.

The fact that there are numerous neutrals in low sec who want to play in the FW playground, whilst taking all the bonus's of being able to shoot both sides (at the cost of sec status) and dock anywhere, is because the appeal of FW does not outweigh the appeal of neut pirating in the same region.

There is clearly an imbalance.

The original proposal does not discourage neutrals from continuing to do what they do. They have already taken the choice that sec status, which for them is a minor impairment, to the bonus of a target rich environment right on the doorstep.

There should be more to encourage players into FW and the current protocol does more to discourage potential FW PvP pilots. At the moment, the system actually encourages your FW targets to warp out. Reducing your chance of fights.

I often don't warp out but, my love for this game is waining fast becuase FW needs a number of improvements.

Faction Warfare should, whislt an excellent ground for the beginning of your PvP career, should also be for the single client, limited time to play, seasoned player. I do not believe there is a better alternative in Eve.

This has got to be the most crybaby bs I have had the displeasure of reading in these forums.

1. 99.99% of the neutrals in lowsec dont care about going suspect. Giving them a suspect timer isnt gonna matter.

2. 99.99% of you FW tards put warp stabs on your ships, tuck tail, and run every time a neutral shows up.

Why would you want to add yet another mechanic to the game when it will serve absolutely no purpose? I dont care what your argument is, it has NO PURPOSE.

Neutral shows up, you run away, or get caught and die. Thats just the way it is. Making the neutral suspect is going to do what? Allow you to shoot at him first without taking a sec hit? He is obviously there for a fight, Just wait for him to shoot you, then you are free to engage....... That is if you arent one of the 99.99% I spoke of above.... in that you will just run when the neutral appears in your site.

Suck it up and drive on. All you carebears do is whine about the silliest ****.

Why hasn't this thread died already? When I joined FW, I set out to be good but there were too many other options. Now I just aim to misbehave. You are in low sec, the part of Eve where you'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. Do you want to be a Greedo and die in a bar, or a Han, a winner who goes home and fu#@s the prom queen?

It really is about HTFU and stopping all this whining about the sec status.

Giving a penalty flag to a neut just for entering a plex has no reasonable explanation within eve lore without completely changing the entire history of what eve has been built on. Action and consequences.

But it still basically boils down to 'HTFU it's loe sec'

The rational argument is that outside of stations and stargates, this is lawless space, whether you are in FW or not. If you are in FW, you do not receive a standing hit because you are at war, but you are vulnerable to all the 'bads' that are out there. You are not safe! You also have the choice to not engage a neutral, to let them shoot first, or shoot first yourself and ask questions later.

Entering a military installation does have consequences, consequences for both parties. If the assumption is activating a gate is somehow an indicator of aggression, why isn't locking a ship an indicator of aggression? Clearly opening a door is equal to putting a gun to someone's head, right? What if the person opening the door just wants to show his/her support for the troops?

Also, I don't think anyone should have to have an alt to enjoy EVE, so I will agree that arguments that include talks of alts should be avoided. However, if you do lose some sec status from shooting first, there are ways to get it back. Counter complaints of having to rat, coming from people who orbit buttons for 10-20 minutes at a time, are as unacceptable as alt suggestions.

So from my humble perspective, deal with it! Don't whine about it!

Kay, all suggestion for improving the game we play so that it is more fun is whining. Check.

You were the one who wanted a rational argument. I gave you one. What's your response? A rational counter-argument? No, an emotional outburst that doesn't move the discussion on. The reason everyone is using 'whining' is because after 5 pages of this crap it becomes a whine thread.

The OP suggested in his orginal post that neutrals receive a suspect flag upon entering a gate, to even the playing field. Which he feels wouldn't be unfair. This would give the poor FW pilot, or anyone for that matter, in the plex the ability to shoot first without any sec repercussions. How is that anywhere near evening the playing field. An even playing field is neither party receives a flag. The first person to shoot is punished with a slight decrease in sec status. All of the 'but if I don't shoot first I lose my advantage' is bulls*#t. That is where a lot of people, myself included, feel this is whining.

As far as 'fun' goes, I will be the first person to agree with you or the OP, ratting for sec status sucks. Grinding anything sucks. The problem is we sit in plexes orbiting a button for LP. Not the most fun thing to do, but hey, we must like something about it or we wouldn't do it. If we do it for the LP, then engaging neutrals shouldn't be an issue.

If we do it for the pew, then we probably want as much advantage as we can get. I'm sure the neutral coming into the plex is thinking the same thing. Part of the engagement, if both parties are not pie, is seeing who is willing to take the sec status hit and engage first.

In my previous posts I have had some fun with my reply and posited that the neutral was just coming to be friendly. Sorry. They want the fight, but do they want the sec status hit? To me, the OP's original premise is based upon the assumption that the neutral entering the plex doesn't care about the sec status hit and the FW pilot in the plex didn't sign up to fight neutrals, so he/she is at a disadvantage. However, these assumptions can not, IMHO, serve as a basis for incurring a suspect flag. No overt action, other than activating an acceleration gate, has been committed.

In the end, I think the warning we receive when we jump from high sec to low sec says all that needs to be said on this topic. I'd quote it now, but I've beat this horse enough.

Why does it have to be a suspect flag? Wouldn't it make more sense that everyone inside the plex has a limited engagement?

Yeah it needs to be fixed, its just a money sink that doesnt add anything positive to the game.