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Why do people fly BS?

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Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#201 - 2014-01-03 10:32:29 UTC
Tasiv Deka wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Try to keep up Tippia. The graph I posted
…can't be verified without you providing the fits. So I did the next best thing and built something that approached the capabilities shown.

As it happens, such a fit would deal 400–450 DPS to the Thorax at 2k, killing it in, oh, about a minute or so. Compare this to the supposed 550 DPS from The Thorax, which will need 4–5 minutes to chew through the Rokh… assuming it hasn't done the sensible thing for a solo Rokh and gone active-tank, in which case the Thorax won't dent it at all.

Taking 400 DPS is not the same as “invulnerable”, so you Thorax is moving in the wrong direction if that's what he's aiming for…


Tippia I always mean to tell you this when i read your posts but i think im in love with you just a little bit...

So much just straight up fact laced with a healthy dose of to the point sarcasm and finished up with a "here is my proof where is yours"

Proof? I saw no proof, just the usual Tippia trolling which equates to pulling 'facts' out of its bum and ignoring real solid data.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
#202 - 2014-01-03 10:32:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Diamond Zerg
I think you may be wrong there, Tasiv. I've tried soloing in a Megathron (which has a tracking bonus) and tracking disruptors really messed me up.

You say earlier that the aggressor may be forced to engage. Being able to disengage instead of dying is a huge advantage, you can even come back shortly (possibly with fleet mates).

I think Battleships need more advantages to offset these disadvantages.
Hi.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#203 - 2014-01-03 10:35:50 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
real solid data.

We're still waiting for your fits. Why are you being so secretive about your work if you are so confident that you are right?

Oh god.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#204 - 2014-01-03 10:36:57 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Tasiv Deka wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Try to keep up Tippia. The graph I posted
…can't be verified without you providing the fits. So I did the next best thing and built something that approached the capabilities shown.

As it happens, such a fit would deal 400–450 DPS to the Thorax at 2k, killing it in, oh, about a minute or so. Compare this to the supposed 550 DPS from The Thorax, which will need 4–5 minutes to chew through the Rokh… assuming it hasn't done the sensible thing for a solo Rokh and gone active-tank, in which case the Thorax won't dent it at all.

Taking 400 DPS is not the same as “invulnerable”, so you Thorax is moving in the wrong direction if that's what he's aiming for…


Tippia I always mean to tell you this when i read your posts but i think im in love with you just a little bit...

So much just straight up fact laced with a healthy dose of to the point sarcasm and finished up with a "here is my proof where is yours"

Proof? I saw no proof, just the usual Tippia trolling which equates to pulling 'facts' out of its bum and ignoring real solid data.



SOlid? HAHAHAHHA HUHUAHAUHAH omg omg.. You do not eve have DATA, you have theoreycrafting.. that is as solid as a JIta scammer integrity.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#205 - 2014-01-03 10:37:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Proof? I saw no proof
Maybe you should provide some, then…

After all, if you're going to dismiss the numbers I yield from the tracking formula because you don't like them, then I'm going to dismiss the numbers you yield from your little information-free image… fair's fair.

Quote:
ignoring real solid data.
There would have to exist some “real solid data” from the beginning for me to ignore it. Maybe if you provide some, I'll be able to satisfy you on this point.
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#206 - 2014-01-03 10:39:42 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
I think you may be wrong there, Tasiv. I've tried soloing in a Megathron (which has a tracking bonus) and tracking disruptors really messed me up.

You say earlier that the aggressor may be forced to engage. Being able to disengage instead of dying is a huge advantage, you can even come back shortly (possibly with fleet mates).

I think Battleships need more advantages to offset these disadvantages.


I was refering to what a single Tracking Disrupt could do (it doesnt really knock stats down that low) and yea bringing back fleet mates is a good thing but youll also see that i said a battleship shouldnt be solo so if we arent going completely 1v1 then you cant use it against one side for the sake of arguing

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#207 - 2014-01-03 10:43:00 UTC
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#208 - 2014-01-03 10:44:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You don't orbit a Rokh at 2k Tippia. You orbit it at 500m.
So, moving the goalposts now, huh?

Ok. At 500, it does 182 DPS, which kills the poor thing in just over two minutes. Meanwhile, the Thorax still does ~550, and still requires 4–5 minutes (or ∞ minutes).

No the goalposts for small ships orbiting big ships has always been 500 metres Tippia. Why would you orbit at 2k where they can hit you slightly. At 500 metres the Rokh does virtually no damage. In 50 seconds my 2 flights of light drones kills the Rokhs meds. After that its game over.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#209 - 2014-01-03 10:44:40 UTC
Lugia3 wrote:
Meme time!

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/44526755.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/QcqIlsi.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/RAKr4WD.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZPue8qB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0rERhLC.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/xgIRLoz.jpg

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/44526900.jpg


Oh Lugia... I miss you man...

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
#210 - 2014-01-03 10:46:22 UTC
Tasiv Deka wrote:
Diamond Zerg wrote:
I think you may be wrong there, Tasiv. I've tried soloing in a Megathron (which has a tracking bonus) and tracking disruptors really messed me up.

You say earlier that the aggressor may be forced to engage. Being able to disengage instead of dying is a huge advantage, you can even come back shortly (possibly with fleet mates).

I think Battleships need more advantages to offset these disadvantages.


I was refering to what a single Tracking Disrupt could do (it doesnt really knock stats down that low) and yea bringing back fleet mates is a good thing but youll also see that i said a battleship shouldnt be solo so if we arent going completely 1v1 then you cant use it against one side for the sake of arguing


Lol, a lot of ships can fit at least two tracking disruptors without making great sacrifices.

If battleships shouldn't have the ability to fight in small numbers, then they should be more effective at fighting in larg-ish numbers, in "straight up" situations where hit and run tactics aren't that important.

Them being worse in both small AND large scale battles is imbalanced.
Hi.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#211 - 2014-01-03 10:46:27 UTC
IZ knows providing the fit is just going to prove you right, so instead he'll just obfuscate and pretend it doesn't matter.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#212 - 2014-01-03 10:47:22 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
You don't orbit a Rokh at 2k Tippia. You orbit it at 500m.
So, moving the goalposts now, huh?

Ok. At 500, it does 182 DPS, which kills the poor thing in just over two minutes. Meanwhile, the Thorax still does ~550, and still requires 4–5 minutes (or ∞ minutes).

No the goalposts for small ships orbiting big ships has always been 500 metres Tippia. Why would you orbit at 2k where they can hit you slightly. At 500 metres the Rokh does virtually no damage. In 50 seconds my 2 flights of light drones kills the Rokhs meds. After that its game over.



That is why battleships NEVER fly alone in PVP (outside station games) .. because a second battleship a few KM away cancels COMPLETELY this tactic.

You show on every single post how much lack of pvp experience you have.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#213 - 2014-01-03 10:47:35 UTC
Tasiv Deka wrote:


Oh Lugia... I miss you man...


Ehh, wormholes aren't my thing. I'ma pirate!

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#214 - 2014-01-03 10:50:22 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Tasiv Deka wrote:
Diamond Zerg wrote:
I think you may be wrong there, Tasiv. I've tried soloing in a Megathron (which has a tracking bonus) and tracking disruptors really messed me up.

You say earlier that the aggressor may be forced to engage. Being able to disengage instead of dying is a huge advantage, you can even come back shortly (possibly with fleet mates).

I think Battleships need more advantages to offset these disadvantages.


I was refering to what a single Tracking Disrupt could do (it doesnt really knock stats down that low) and yea bringing back fleet mates is a good thing but youll also see that i said a battleship shouldnt be solo so if we arent going completely 1v1 then you cant use it against one side for the sake of arguing


Lol, a lot of ships can fit at least two tracking disruptors without making great sacrifices.

If battleships shouldn't have the ability to fight in small numbers, then they should be more effective at fighting in larg-ish numbers, in "straight up" situations where hit and run tactics aren't that important.

Them being worse in both small AND large scale battles is imbalanced.


im not saying they cant fight in small numbers im saying they cant fight solo which is a big difference from small gangs and as for large ish numbers its more of a how large is large... ive seen 2-3 tornados alpha a tengu but not even break the shield of a Raven at a certain point though anyone ship is going to be erased when enough is focusing fire on it its just a matter of what it can do before its sweeped aside

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Tasiv Deka
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#215 - 2014-01-03 10:51:20 UTC
Lugia3 wrote:
Tasiv Deka wrote:


Oh Lugia... I miss you man...


Ehh, wormholes aren't my thing. I'ma pirate!


Yea i know... one of these days youll have to join one of our roams though

Oh, Do go on... no seriously ive got nothing better to do then listen to all the petty arguments and feeble trolling attempts... 

The sad thing is i'm not sure if i'm telling the truth.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#216 - 2014-01-03 10:51:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Infinity Ziona wrote:
No the goalposts for small ships orbiting big ships has always been 500 metres
Infinity Ziona wrote:
The only thing that is important is in all cases a Rax inside 2k of a Rokh
So, moving the goalposts now, huh?

Quote:
At 500 metres the Rokh does
…about 181 DPS, which is enough to kill a Thorax in 2 minutes — less than half of what the Thorax needs to kill the Rokh.

Quote:
In 50 seconds my 2 flights of light drones kills the Rokhs meds. After that its game over.
…and this is why you need to provide the fits, because now you've altered what you initially submitted as “evidence”. So I'll do the same: how long does it take for your two flights to kill his two flights? Oh, and after that time, it is is indeed game over for the Thorax since he still can't get through the Rokh's tank. Thorax still dies.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#217 - 2014-01-03 10:52:09 UTC
Tasiv Deka wrote:
Lugia3 wrote:
Tasiv Deka wrote:


Oh Lugia... I miss you man...


Ehh, wormholes aren't my thing. I'ma pirate!


Yea i know... one of these days youll have to join one of our roams though


Any time.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#218 - 2014-01-03 10:52:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
real solid data.

We're still waiting for your fits. Why are you being so secretive about your work if you are so confident that you are right?


Rokh

Highs
Neutron Blaster Cannon II's

Meds
Prop X (scram = no applicable)
Warp Scram II
Webbifier II
Tank (Add the best tank you can)

Lows
3 x Mag Stab II
1 x TE II
DCU II

Drones
Whatever you like


Rax

[Thorax, I Kill BS]
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Warp Scrambler II
Small Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 200
Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Hobgoblin II x5
Hobgoblin II x5

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#219 - 2014-01-03 10:53:50 UTC
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Tasiv Deka wrote:
Diamond Zerg wrote:
I think you may be wrong there, Tasiv. I've tried soloing in a Megathron (which has a tracking bonus) and tracking disruptors really messed me up.

You say earlier that the aggressor may be forced to engage. Being able to disengage instead of dying is a huge advantage, you can even come back shortly (possibly with fleet mates).

I think Battleships need more advantages to offset these disadvantages.


I was refering to what a single Tracking Disrupt could do (it doesnt really knock stats down that low) and yea bringing back fleet mates is a good thing but youll also see that i said a battleship shouldnt be solo so if we arent going completely 1v1 then you cant use it against one side for the sake of arguing


Lol, a lot of ships can fit at least two tracking disruptors without making great sacrifices.

If battleships shouldn't have the ability to fight in small numbers, then they should be more effective at fighting in larg-ish numbers, in "straight up" situations where hit and run tactics aren't that important.

Them being worse in both small AND large scale battles is imbalanced.



Solo and small numbers are completely different things.


take a group of 4 of these , and then try to check how many t1 cruisers you need at same time to deal with that small group of battleships?

[Dominix, New Setup 1]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I

Large Micro Jump Drive
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800

Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I

Large Egress Port Maximizer I
Large Egress Port Maximizer I
Large Remote Repair Augmentor I

Garde II x5




"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
#220 - 2014-01-03 10:54:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Diamond Zerg
Tasiv Deka wrote:
Diamond Zerg wrote:
Tasiv Deka wrote:
Diamond Zerg wrote:
I think you may be wrong there, Tasiv. I've tried soloing in a Megathron (which has a tracking bonus) and tracking disruptors really messed me up.

You say earlier that the aggressor may be forced to engage. Being able to disengage instead of dying is a huge advantage, you can even come back shortly (possibly with fleet mates).

I think Battleships need more advantages to offset these disadvantages.


I was refering to what a single Tracking Disrupt could do (it doesnt really knock stats down that low) and yea bringing back fleet mates is a good thing but youll also see that i said a battleship shouldnt be solo so if we arent going completely 1v1 then you cant use it against one side for the sake of arguing


Lol, a lot of ships can fit at least two tracking disruptors without making great sacrifices.

If battleships shouldn't have the ability to fight in small numbers, then they should be more effective at fighting in larg-ish numbers, in "straight up" situations where hit and run tactics aren't that important.

Them being worse in both small AND large scale battles is imbalanced.


im not saying they cant fight in small numbers im saying they cant fight solo which is a big difference from small gangs and as for large ish numbers its more of a how large is large... ive seen 2-3 tornados alpha a tengu but not even break the shield of a Raven at a certain point though anyone ship is going to be erased when enough is focusing fire on it its just a matter of what it can do before its sweeped aside



I'm referring to the ongoing theme of using fast, nimble ships for heavy slugfests/straight up engagements.

Imo, Battleships should either be really strong, but not very mobile, or quite strong and reasonably mobile.

At the moment some battleship doctrines are just underpowered in general.

And @ Kagura.

Sure, an equal number of small ships, you're right, the Battleships might win.

But how long until the smaller ships use their superior mobility to dogpile onto the Battleships?

With the warp changes it's even easier.
Hi.