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When to train capitals?

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Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#41 - 2013-12-25 18:46:19 UTC
The time to get a capital is when you are at the end of your drone or gun remap (( Dependent on the capital you want ))

If you are maxing out drones and you are now training fighters you'll want a carriers at the start of your very next per/will remap.

If you are already at the end of per/will remap and you are gun / missile focused, get that Dread you have had your eye on.

It's really that simple if you train to your remap instead of remapping to your training.
Which you should be doing by the time you hit 40-50 mil SP. (( If not much, much earlier Big smile ))

Also for moving stuff around purposes you can't beat the Rorqual. The cap of choice for all the industrialist out there.
(( Can achieve much better m3 to fuel ratio compared to jump freighters. Also has drones, but can't go into high sec ))


Most if not all large SOV groups prefer armor caps. (( Mainly Amarr / Gallente ))
They work best in large groups.

If you are very small organization don't be scared of going with caldari caps.
They can be the best in the pure dps / hit and run groups. (( Less than 5 caps on the field ))

Run with Minmitar if you want extra versatility.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#42 - 2013-12-25 20:14:04 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:

Also for moving stuff around purposes you can't beat the Rorqual. The cap of choice for all the industrialist out there.
(( Can achieve much better m3 to fuel ratio compared to jump freighters. Also has drones, but can't go into high sec ))


I agree that the Rorqual is the "poor man's jump freighter" and that's how I used mine before I bought my Rhea, however a carrier is unmatched for moving non-industrial ships around. Try loading 2 fully fit battleships or a whole bunch of cruisers in a Rorqual and then call me. Carriers are great for moving your ships around low/nullsec. Rorquals/JF are for moving your stuff.
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#43 - 2013-12-25 22:57:00 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Ireland VonVicious wrote:

Also for moving stuff around purposes you can't beat the Rorqual. The cap of choice for all the industrialist out there.
(( Can achieve much better m3 to fuel ratio compared to jump freighters. Also has drones, but can't go into high sec ))


I agree that the Rorqual is the "poor man's jump freighter" and that's how I used mine before I bought my Rhea, however a carrier is unmatched for moving non-industrial ships around. Try loading 2 fully fit battleships or a whole bunch of cruisers in a Rorqual and then call me. Carriers are great for moving your ships around low/nullsec. Rorquals/JF are for moving your stuff.



Funny.

The original quote says for industrialist and moving stuff.

Not combat and moving ships.

Never stated that Rorqual is poor mans jump freighter. It's far more than that.
(( Big health, Good DPS v.s. sub caps, Clone vat, Mining bonuses, Industrial core. ))
It's far too awesome to be called that.
Solomunio Kzenig
The Intrinsic Ones
#44 - 2013-12-26 12:03:21 UTC
Passing 121 million SP on my main and 97mil on my alt, 0 Capital skills on the main and just Amarr freighters on the alt. You only need cap skills if your playstyle needs them, back in the day when I was on 0.0 I might have trained them but there was always 1. something else to train and 2. my corp had lots of carrier pilots to move stuff. Now the only thing i'll probably train is Black Ops after I'm finishing getting all subcap sills to V.
Heavensend
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2013-12-26 19:47:51 UTC
Trained carrier to support myself while playing in 0.0. After 2 times forced to evakuate very very quick from 0.0 the time to train skills to use a carrier as a rescue pod was worth it. 1 time I had no carrier or any skills to fly one. Billions were lost while station with my assets was conquered. If you use carrier as a travel bag for your 0.0 actions you will never regret the 2 month of extra skill time to fly one for your independant connection to low Sec.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#46 - 2013-12-26 20:26:11 UTC
If you're going to live outside hi-sec then a carrier is an incredibly useful tool for moving your ships around in. It really does make moving your staging point incredibly much easier. That utility as a "super hauler" is essentially seperate from any considerations of capital combat which I personally would advise that you avoid like a tedious, incredibly expensive plague.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#47 - 2013-12-26 21:41:53 UTC
Capitals have few very specil uses where they excell. Think more about what you need to do and if carrier/dread can make it much better than any subcap. If you live in a big alliance is rich and wand a few supercap kills why not. If you want make serious isk in wormholes then definitely. As was said without carrirer youll feel silly in nullsec alliance because you need to move your assets often. What is alwas tru is that if you want to use your capital effectively you need at least one another account to light cynos and scout for you.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#48 - 2013-12-29 20:17:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Solomunio Kzenig wrote:
Passing 121 million SP on my main and 97mil on my alt, 0 Capital skills on the main and just Amarr freighters on the alt. You only need cap skills if your playstyle needs them, back in the day when I was on 0.0 I might have trained them but there was always 1. something else to train and 2. my corp had lots of carrier pilots to move stuff. Now the only thing i'll probably train is Black Ops after I'm finishing getting all subcap sills to V.

I don't think SP is a good measure of when to train capitals. I initially trained for capitals when I needed them.

Just over 108m SP, and I can pilot all carriers, dreads, freighters, jump freighters, and the Rorqual. Nearly all sub-caps too, as I'm only missing Amarr / Gallente / Minmatar Battleship 5, and Propulsion Jamming 5.

My shadow (alt) trained for my first Rorqual when my corp was living in a C2 wormhole. That was about 4 years ago. I later self-destructed it when we moved out, and bought another when we eventually moved into a C5.

I trained for my first carrier, a Chimera, when my corp was living in a C5 wormhole and needed another shield carrier for escalations; we had lots of Revelation and Archon pilots, but an Archon sucks at repping shield-tanked Tengus [it is the only carrier without a shield transporter range bonus].
Wyte Ragnarok
#49 - 2014-01-02 16:43:17 UTC
What Tau said. I just passed 70m SP and have only just started training for capitals, not because I passed a magical SP barrier, but because they'll be useful within the alliance.
On a side note, what jump skills to 5? I looked at JDO/JDC/JFC all to 5, but that takes around 100 days, on my intel/mem remap I have planned. As I'm currently perc/will, I can't inject and train the carrier skill yet, so unfortunately am going to have to go intel/mem for a few months, only to swap back to perc/will in order to train some other skills. Quite annoying. Otherwise I may have to train Carrier off-map
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#50 - 2014-01-02 22:09:39 UTC
Wyte Ragnarok wrote:
What Tau said. I just passed 70m SP and have only just started training for capitals, not because I passed a magical SP barrier, but because they'll be useful within the alliance.
On a side note, what jump skills to 5? I looked at JDO/JDC/JFC all to 5, but that takes around 100 days, on my intel/mem remap I have planned. As I'm currently perc/will, I can't inject and train the carrier skill yet, so unfortunately am going to have to go intel/mem for a few months, only to swap back to perc/will in order to train some other skills. Quite annoying. Otherwise I may have to train Carrier off-map

You can get by with JDC 4, but I've often said that JDC 5 should be considered a prerequisite for all ships with a jump drive.

JDO 5 is a prerequisite for JDC. You can get by with JFC 4.
Tenga Fera
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2014-01-02 23:03:03 UTC
You should train caps when you have the time to train up navigation skills which require willpower as primary instead of perception, also I belief that drone require that as well. So you might have to remap yourself to willpower, memory/perception at some point.
Kirkwood Ross
Golden Profession
#52 - 2014-01-03 02:52:23 UTC
When you have a clear and intended purpose for the capital that is relevant to your interest while playing Eve.
When you can afford to replace it when it dies.
Wyte Ragnarok
#53 - 2014-01-03 10:17:32 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
You can get by with JDC 4, but I've often said that JDC 5 should be considered a prerequisite for all ships with a jump drive.

JDO 5 is a prerequisite for JDC. You can get by with JFC 4.

Thanks Tau, JDO 5, JDC 5 and JFC 4 it is then (I try not to skimp on skills :P )
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#54 - 2014-01-06 08:06:06 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
You can get by with JDC 4, but I've often said that JDC 5 should be considered a prerequisite for all ships with a jump drive.

JDO 5 is a prerequisite for JDC. You can get by with JFC 4.

FYI, NCDOT just announced that JDC 5 was their minimum to use alliance cynos; those with JDC 4 have to manage cynos on their own.
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