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Drone's getting nerfed?
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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#141 - 2014-01-02 15:38:03 UTC
why not make a new skill? call it multi drone matrix. the skill would allow 5 people per level to assign thier drones to you. so that means at level 5 you can only have 25 peopls drones asigned to you.

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#142 - 2014-01-02 15:46:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
baltec1 wrote:

Having 90% of ships invalidated by just one is a massive balance issue. CCP do not want capitals online and nobody wants a situation where it is impossible for a newer alliance to win fights vs the superpowers.


if CCP wants sheer number play then they will remove capitals from combat, which I dont support.
Its not the sole ship type which invalidates 90% of your kitchensink, I posted on previous page why N3 can field them and why others cant.

No newer alliance is going to win something vs. 1000 megathrons either, so whats your point exactly here?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#143 - 2014-01-02 15:54:54 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Having 90% of ships invalidated by just one is a massive balance issue. CCP do not want capitals online and nobody wants a situation where it is impossible for a newer alliance to win fights vs the superpowers.


if CCP wants sheer number play then they will remove capitals from combat, which I dont support.
Its not the sole ship type which invalidates 90% of your kitchensink, I posted on previous page why N3 can field them and why others cant.

No newer alliance is going to win something vs. 1000 megathrons either, so whats your point exactly here?


They can and do win.

RnK are by far the most deadly force in the galaxy and often murder entire fleets no matter who they belong to. We have countless examples of much smaller alliances beating much bigger superpowers. Numbers alone will not win big fights.
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#144 - 2014-01-02 15:57:05 UTC
Movarer wrote:
There is no reason to risk the big guns? What do you have that outperforms slowcats in ANY aspect? A titanblob cant do what it does. A superblob cant either. It has great tank, perfect damage application, insane range, cost-efficiency, replacability, etc. If you do NOT put a slowcat fleet to defensive use, you are being stupid, and that is why its broken.
Umm, a Dominix can outperform an Archon in some of those aspects, and especially in movability.
It's also easier to get people into Dominixes and much cheaper to move such a fleet around.

DPS wise an Archon is comparable to an Armor Instacane (~500 DPS from an Archon, ~400 DPS from this instacane).

If you want combat cost efficiency cruisers or battlecruisers are much better than capitals for almost anything.

Just to deploy Slowcats has costs, even if the enemy stands down right after jump-in.
Say that N3+PL has to defend 9-8G in Catch. If all the Archons have Fuel Conservation 5, that's 1 416 Helium Isotopes per Archon, x250 Archons it's 212M (~600 isk/u for the isotopes) just to deploy, and 212M to get home.
That's not a lot, especially not per carrier pilot, but it's each time.
Each and every time we need to defend 9-8G.

All this with the risk that if things go south, the loss of each slowcat is ~2B, a BS is ~250m, a BC is ~60M, and a cruiser can be what, 30M these days?
If, say, you expect at least 1 slowcat to not broadcast for reps and thus die (So only 1 person is watching Netflix or whatever), a fleet of BS can lose 8, a BC fleet can lose 33 and a CR fleet can lose 67 ships and still be equivalent.
You only need to kill around 30 T2 sentries for each CR you lost yourself, or 60 per BC, or 250 per BS.

The slowcat has some excellent uses, but the reason it's used so much by N3+PL is not that it's perfect for every situation, but the degree to which it is able to fight outnumbered and survive/hold the grid.
The easiest counter to a Slowcat fleet is not to be on the same grid as it is.
There, countered.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#145 - 2014-01-02 16:01:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
baltec1 wrote:

They can and do win.

RnK are by far the most deadly force in the galaxy and often murder entire fleets no matter who they belong to. We have countless examples of much smaller alliances beating much bigger superpowers. Numbers alone will not win big fights.


what are we talking about here about gud fights or about sov war?

In case of first: why would someone want to try or expect a gud fight against slowcats? These are consensual to some degree and optional you dont need to fight what you dont like. Only strategic objectives at static locations are able to pin someone down for slowcats under the choice of loosing something substantial like sov or station, pretty everyone else can walk away with no losses.

If case of second: show me RnK space they grabbed from goon block?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#146 - 2014-01-02 16:33:38 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

They can and do win.

RnK are by far the most deadly force in the galaxy and often murder entire fleets no matter who they belong to. We have countless examples of much smaller alliances beating much bigger superpowers. Numbers alone will not win big fights.


what are we talking about here about gud fights or about sov war?

In case of first: why would someone want to try or expect a gud fight against slowcats? These are consensual to some degree and optional you dont need to fight what you dont like. Only strategic objectives at static locations are able to pin someone down for slowcats under the choice of loosing something substantial like sov or station, pretty everyone else can walk away with no losses.

If case of second: show me RnK space they grabbed from goon block?


Having a chance of victory is always better than no chance at all.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#147 - 2014-01-02 16:36:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
baltec1 wrote:


Having a chance of victory is always better than no chance at all.


so you were talking about consensual, optional gud fight I assume - then you better bring proper ships for that, noone can force you to fight with knife in a gunfight.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#148 - 2014-01-02 16:47:57 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Having a chance of victory is always better than no chance at all.


so you were talking about consensual, optional gud fight I assume - then you better bring proper ships for that, noone can force you to fight with knife in a gunfight.


Both.

RnK might not have (or want) sov but they did turn battles and often forced one side to stand down with as few as 40 people. If we allow this game to decend into capitals online then it will be impossible for most peopleto do anything againt the two powerblocks.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#149 - 2014-01-02 18:13:30 UTC
Robert Caldera seems to forget that we can use the slowcat blob, and you'll have no chance of taking our sov if we do.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#150 - 2014-01-02 18:16:45 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Having a chance of victory is always better than no chance at all.

so you were talking about consensual, optional gud fight I assume - then you better bring proper ships for that, noone can force you to fight with knife in a gunfight.

Both.

RnK might not have (or want) sov but they did turn battles and often forced one side to stand down with as few as 40 people. If we allow this game to decend into capitals online then it will be impossible for most peopleto do anything againt the two powerblocks.

Why worry so much, they can join the coalition that exists to destroy us.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#151 - 2014-01-02 18:37:01 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


Having a chance of victory is always better than no chance at all.


so you were talking about consensual, optional gud fight I assume - then you better bring proper ships for that, noone can force you to fight with knife in a gunfight.


Both.

RnK might not have (or want) sov but they did turn battles and often forced one side to stand down with as few as 40 people. If we allow this game to decend into capitals online then it will be impossible for most peopleto do anything againt the two powerblocks.



Small powers can't do any meaningful damage to large powerblocks anyways with or without capital ships.

To say otherwise is completely naive. Sure, RnK might not "want" sov, but even if they did want it, they would never keep any meaningful amount of it, because they don't have the manpower.

It really is that simple.
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#152 - 2014-01-02 19:25:31 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Robert Caldera seems to forget that we can use the slowcat blob, and you'll have no chance of taking our sov if we do.


So whats the hold up then?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#153 - 2014-01-02 19:44:59 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Robert Caldera seems to forget that we can use the slowcat blob, and you'll have no chance of taking our sov if we do.


So whats the hold up then?


Same thing that stopped us from taking up all of the other overpowered capital blobs. Its game breaking for the majority.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#154 - 2014-01-02 19:50:23 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:


Small powers can't do any meaningful damage to large powerblocks anyways with or without capital ships.

To say otherwise is completely naive. Sure, RnK might not "want" sov, but even if they did want it, they would never keep any meaningful amount of it, because they don't have the manpower.

It really is that simple.


Goons started out with a single carrier and a fleet of mostly rifters. Why should we be invincible to the smaller powers who do not have access to vast capital fleets? Why should todays newcomers not have the same chance of success?
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#155 - 2014-01-02 19:51:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
MeBiatch wrote:

So whats the hold up then?


he's just concerned about game balance and fun for everyone in eve.. this is why he's in goonswarm and not like... RnK
or RvB lmao
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#156 - 2014-01-02 20:17:55 UTC
Drone assist should be removed from the game.

The Tears Must Flow
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#157 - 2014-01-02 20:20:20 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Robert Caldera seems to forget that we can use the slowcat blob, and you'll have no chance of taking our sov if we do.


So whats the hold up then?

Because it's not very good offensively. It's limited in mobility. It's best used as a defensive tool.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Shiti Dama
Hull Zero Two
#158 - 2014-01-02 20:34:38 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Robert Caldera seems to forget that we can use the slowcat blob, and you'll have no chance of taking our sov if we do.


So whats the hold up then?

Because it's not very good offensively. It's limited in mobility. It's best used as a defensive tool.



... sooooo, stop poking around in other peoples space and go home, problem solved.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#159 - 2014-01-02 20:37:06 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Goons started out with a single carrier and a fleet of mostly rifters. Why should we be invincible to the smaller powers who do not have access to vast capital fleets? Why should todays newcomers not have the same chance of success?


But they do. There's plenty of areas of space to attack that aren't heavily guarded by a core of 300+ Archons.

In fact, only an incredibly tiny part of nullsec, compared to the entirety, is guarded in such a fashion -- so I have a hard time feeling that your argument has any merits.

And goons didn't just start with a "fleet of rifters." Goons basically started with thousands of people, who primarily flew rifters when they first started.

But your point is moot, and didn't address my argument -- namely that you need a massive amount of manpower to take and hold sov from big powerblocks, with or without capitals. Manpower is the most needed thing of all.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#160 - 2014-01-02 20:45:12 UTC
Shiti Dama wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Robert Caldera seems to forget that we can use the slowcat blob, and you'll have no chance of taking our sov if we do.


So whats the hold up then?

Because it's not very good offensively. It's limited in mobility. It's best used as a defensive tool.



... sooooo, stop poking around in other peoples space and go home, problem solved.

Stop playing the game. Right.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)