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Can a well Fitted Stratios handle a C3solo?
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Burgandye
Catskull Cartel
Grimskulls
#1 - 2013-12-27 23:33:42 UTC
I'm researching the hell out of wormholes and how to survive them. I'd thought I'd ask real quick if any of yall feel like a Stratios could survive a solo c3 wormhole trip. Is this viable? What kind of Fits do yall think one would need for it?
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#2 - 2013-12-27 23:55:20 UTC
Except for data and relic sites, yes, they can.

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Burgandye
Catskull Cartel
Grimskulls
#3 - 2013-12-28 00:38:36 UTC
Do those typically have stronger rats protecting them?
HTC NecoSino
Suddenly Carebears
Verlate
#4 - 2013-12-28 04:29:45 UTC
Jill Chastot
WE FORM BL0B Inc.
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2013-12-28 07:56:28 UTC
Jesus, why aren't they using a t3

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=298596&find=unread OATHS wants you. Come to the WH "Safety in eve is the greatest fallacy you will ever encounter. Once you accept this you will truely enjoy this game."
Icarus Able
Refuse.Resist
#6 - 2013-12-28 13:52:10 UTC
Dont even bother. Gila, ishtar any t3 would do them better.
Burgandye
Catskull Cartel
Grimskulls
#7 - 2013-12-30 15:49:32 UTC
Just curious, what kinda of Ishtar fit would be serviceable. I love myself a good drone boat.
Auduin Samson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-12-30 15:52:58 UTC
Battleships, T3s, and some HACs/Battlecruisers can handle C3 sites for a fraction of the price. Why on earth would you want to fly a loot pinata like that when you don't have to? I could buy and fit two very capable WH battleships for the price of one stratios hull.
Jerek Jansen
Doomheim
#9 - 2013-12-30 17:56:26 UTC
Burgandye wrote:
Do those typically have stronger rats protecting them?


More.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#10 - 2013-12-30 18:56:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
Burgandye wrote:
I'm researching the hell out of wormholes and how to survive them. I'd thought I'd ask real quick if any of yall feel like a Stratios could survive a solo c3 wormhole trip. Is this viable? What kind of Fits do yall think one would need for it?


they are inferior to ishtar/gila both in tank and in dps. Yet they are armor tankers with only 5 lows. In W-space you get wayyyy less usage from your ability to warp cloaked since there are little in the way of gatecamps. Bonused probes are cool and all, but MD + new scanning mods help the ishtar out a ton, which also has a very large cargobay. W/ a stratios I would go for c1/c2 data/relic sites, because then you're taking decent advantage of its ability to hack and probe, and you're less likely to die.

Burgandye wrote:
Just curious, what kinda of Ishtar fit would be serviceable. I love myself a good drone boat.

ishtar works well with 10mn mwd for sniping with sentries. you can also use a 10mn AB or a 100mn AB. Viable both as armor fit or active shield or as passive shield. Armor version can also make okay use of the RAH.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

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Frantic Freddie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-01-01 06:19:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Frantic Freddie
Batelle wrote:
In W-space you get wayyyy less usage from your ability to warp cloaked since there are little in the way of gatecamps...


To the contrary, the ability to warp cloaked is amongst your strongest assets in W-space. I agree, for an obvious PvE boat like the Stratios it's of less utility, but nevertheless it's arguably the best bonus of the ship.

While based on the numbers the Stratios clearly CAN solo C3 anomalies, it's not really the best at anything. It's a tidy all-in-one package, though, that clearly outmatches the venerable Pilgrim for lowsec and C1/C2 exploration, and can hold its own with what looks like should be about 15 to 20-minute anomaly completion times in a C3 with a fit as below. Note the data/relic analyzers are wholly optional, as the loot from relic sites isn't usually worth the time in C3 space, compared to salvage.

However, if you're dead-set on experiencing everything Eve has to offer in C3 and below wormholes, and you can't/won't fly a T3, this is not a bad ship for it. As a wormhole resident I probably won't use it (my legion already does all this) but if I were a hard-core day-tripper or someone who wanted to fly just one ship and had a T3 budget, this would do nicely at a reasonable price given the reward. A Mobile Tractor and Mobile Depot in the cargo hold, and you still have 400m3 for practically unlimited nanite paste, refits for salvaging or different types of sites, and plenty of wormhole loot. It should pay for itself in just 10 C3 sites, or about 4 hours of site-running, or about 20-30 C2 sites.

Here are sample fits re-using the same rigs. Carry refits in your cargo hold, and Sleeper loot/salvage is tiny.

The all-purpose fit. Don't use it in C3 data/relic, but it would work fine in C2 or C1 data/relic sites. Most common engagement distance: about 50km.

[Stratios, C2 data/relic]

Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer

10MN Afterburner II
Large Capacitor Battery II
Data Analyzer II
Relic Analyzer II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Aurora M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Aurora M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Aurora M
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Garde II x4
Hobgoblin II x5
Bouncer II x4
Wasp EC-900 x5
Hammerhead II x5


Genolution Core Augmentation CA-1
Genolution Core Augmentation CA-2
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Engineering EG-603


The C3 anomaly fit. Most common engagement distance: about 40km.

[Stratios, C3 Anoms]

Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer, Nanite Repair Paste
Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer

10MN Afterburner II
Large Capacitor Battery II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Focused Medium Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Garde II x4
Hobgoblin II x5
Bouncer II x4
Wasp EC-900 x5
Hammerhead II x5


Genolution Core Augmentation CA-1
Genolution Core Augmentation CA-2
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Engineering EG-603

Refit to salvage your sites after your MTU drags everything in (maybe fit some salvage drones for the non-battleship Sleepers), with battlecruiser-level EHP and modest jams to resist gank attempts:

[Stratios, C3 Salvage]

Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II

10MN Afterburner II
BZ-5 Neutralizing Spatial Destabilizer ECM
Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I
'Hypnos' Ion Field ECM I
'Umbra' White Noise ECM

Salvager II
Salvager II
Salvager II
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I


Garde II x4
Hobgoblin II x5
Bouncer II x4
Hammerhead II x5
Vespa EC-600 x5
Salvage Drone I x5


These are just ideas; I typically prefer the "run after them and drop drones at close range" approach over "drop sentries and orbit" (that's kind of dull). Personally, I think a T3 is a better option, but the level-loss on ship-loss isn't for everyone, and refitting subsystems is a bit of a pain and hard on the cargo space. The Stratios isn't a bad option, really: versatile, tough, reasonably hard-hitting, a price in-line with a comparable T3, and no need to splash out on numerous sub-systems to do the several jobs required for effective w-space operation.
Burgandye
Catskull Cartel
Grimskulls
#12 - 2014-01-01 19:49:44 UTC
Wow! This is all great advice! Im taking it all in and experimenting but Im having trouble with C2 relic and Data Sites.

I plant my sentries but they hardly do any damage. Am I doing something wrong? I was so perplexed I didn't even try out any of the other combat sites.

I'm using Garde I sentries.
Burgandye
Catskull Cartel
Grimskulls
#13 - 2014-01-02 01:07:01 UTC
Are sleepers just tougher then the rest of the combat site rats?
Billy Hardcore
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2014-01-02 16:21:03 UTC
they totally shouldn't

#BillyFleet
Borsek
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2014-01-02 18:55:42 UTC
Oh my ****...

1. Gila is cheaper and easily trained into and better
2. T3s can solo this crap easily
3. Why, oh why a stratios?
4. Topic #1121235 about C3 and below sites
5. Use a Battleship if you're day tripping and can't fly a decent T3, it's also cheaper and more effective than a stratios
6. Warping cloaked won't help you when you get jumped in a site, if your hunters are capable
7. If your hunters are incompetent, you can kill them anyway
8. Join a WH corp to learn the basics, you will learn more in a shorter time and have buddies helping you (or awoxing you, either way, fun fun)
Frantic Freddie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-01-02 20:34:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Frantic Freddie
Borsek wrote:
Oh my ****...


Everything Borsek said is true. 100%. However, I *love* experimenting with fits and tactics. This is how you invent new approaches people haven't used before, giving an advantage in both PvP and PvE. In particular, I love figuring out low-skilled

1. Yes. Gila is better for running sites. But for all-in-one scanning, cloaking, hacking, and combat, Stratios does it better. T3 would be better still.
2. Of course. If you CAN use a T3, DO use a T3. But a Stratios can do it.
3. Because you can. And you don't care about the ISK because you're just ten sites away from making it back in a C3.
4. ...
5. A Domi or Armageddon flies similarly with much better damage application. But I've killed a bunch of those soloing in wormholes. Alignment time, cloak, bonuses to analyzers, smaller sig, bonus to scanning, and light mass all matter in wormholes for various reasons.
6. But warping cloaked will help you hide from the combat scanners, help you with scouting to make sure the system is unoccupied without requiring a dedicated separate ship to do so, etc.
7. As evidenced by my recent Purifier almost-loss to a competent Armageddon PvE pilot. Turns out a smart Geddon pilot can just jam out the Purifier with some EC-900s while shredding it in seconds with smaller-than-expected guns. Talk about an unexpected response...
8. Yes, yes, 1000 times yes! I was under the assumption this fellow had some background in wormholes.


To OP: Why you're having trouble with the Stratios:
A. Your drone skills and/or spaceship command skills are not good enough to make the most of the hull if you're using Garde I. Use faction sentries. The lack of low slots for Drone Damage Amplifiers curses you with the same problem as a Pilgrim: enough slots to tank, but not enough slots to make your drones really damaging. You really want Gallente Cruiser 5 and Amarr Cruiser 5, with Sentry Drone Interfacing 5, Drone Interfacing 5, and T2 lasers to make this hull reasonable at C2 relic/data sites and C3 anoms. Don't neglect the lasers; they are more than 25% of this hull's DPS!
B. If you lack the skills, use faction sentries. They are only 10% less effective than T2.
C. Orbit range in C2 data/relic sites often exceeds 50km. Use a Republic Fleet Bouncer for long range. I typically carry both.
D. The Stratios is not particularly good at combat. It scans, hacks, analyzes, and fights reasonably well, and is capable of C3 work if well-skilled, but is not particularly good at any role. Try out a well-fitted Dominix in some L4 missions, then try your Stratios in the same missions, and you'll see why you're struggling.

As said, Gila/Ishtar both excel at combat compared to the Stratios. If you're skilled in a T3, it will also make the Stratios irrelevant because your T3 can be better at every job the Stratios would otherwise do. That said, still a fun hull. Just got mine yesterday; I'll feedback in this forum in a bit :)
Ice Dealer
Ice Dealer Corporation
#17 - 2014-01-02 22:26:43 UTC
Frantic Freddie wrote:
Batelle wrote:
In W-space you get wayyyy less usage from your ability to warp cloaked since there are little in the way of gatecamps...


To the contrary, the ability to warp cloaked is amongst your strongest assets in W-space. I agree, for an obvious PvE boat like the Stratios it's of less utility, but nevertheless it's arguably the best bonus of the ship.
...


Would you be able to post some T3 Setups as well? Which ones are the best / worst and kinda in what order?
Do you use the covert or do you not?

Thanks!
Frantic Freddie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-01-02 23:21:45 UTC
Ice Dealer wrote:
Would you be able to post some T3 Setups as well? Which ones are the best / worst and kinda in what order?
Do you use the covert or do you not?


IMHO, a PvE Tengu is still the best all around T3 for wormholes. Fits abound. The Mobile Depot allows the scouty-Tengu to easily refit from a cloaky, interdiction-nullified setup to a combat setup in space once a suitable system for running sites is found. The Legion, Loki, and Proteus can all solo C3 wormholes, too, but are more challenging and expensive to fit.

T3 tactics have changed RADICALLY due to the introduction of the Mobile Tractor Unit and the Mobile Depot, particularly for typically PvP-averse wormhole nomads in seek of profit. You can carry a subsystem or two with you and refit on the fly. I typically use a slippery cloaky, interdiction-nullified fit to scout the system, then refit to a combat fit once I'm reasonably certain I can do so in relative safely. However, I live in a wormhole, so I don't have much need for the Depot unless I'm working a system far down the chain.

I think a discussion of T3 fits is out of scope for this thread, but I'll gladly post the Rubicon Legion fits I use for C3 solo wormhole work to a new thread. I expect them to be torn apart and told that they won't work, of course. That's how the forum works. Disinformation is intentional; you want to lure the unprepared into wormholes, and discourage effective care-bearing fits so you can pad the killboard...

As always, be cautious of sources in this forum, including me. Import fits into EFT/Pyfa yourself, verify the numbers look good, and ensure the playstyle is compatible with your resources and skills. Don't just seize onto one fit and hope it will work for you; trust but verify, test, improve, and create a fit and playstyle that matches your expectations of risk, reward, and time constraints.

And for Bob's sake, run two accounts. Fit an Expanded Probe Launcher to the alt account, spam combat probes, and watch for new ship signatures to appear in system with that beautiful 64au probe radius. D-scan is not enough. Otherwise your ship is just a gank waiting to happen...
Borsek
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#19 - 2014-01-03 12:12:35 UTC
Frantic Freddie wrote:
Borsek wrote:
Oh my ****...



1. Yes. Gila is better for running sites. But for all-in-one scanning, cloaking, hacking, and combat, Stratios does it better. T3 would be better still.
2. Of course. If you CAN use a T3, DO use a T3. But a Stratios can do it.
3. Because you can. And you don't care about the ISK because you're just ten sites away from making it back in a C3.
4. ...
5. A Domi or Armageddon flies similarly with much better damage application. But I've killed a bunch of those soloing in wormholes. Alignment time, cloak, bonuses to analyzers, smaller sig, bonus to scanning, and light mass all matter in wormholes for various reasons.
6. But warping cloaked will help you hide from the combat scanners, help you with scouting to make sure the system is unoccupied without requiring a dedicated separate ship to do so, etc.
7. As evidenced by my recent Purifier almost-loss to a competent Armageddon PvE pilot. Turns out a smart Geddon pilot can just jam out the Purifier with some EC-900s while shredding it in seconds with smaller-than-expected guns. Talk about an unexpected response...
8. Yes, yes, 1000 times yes! I was under the assumption this fellow had some background in wormholes.



Here's the deal. Competent gankers will jump a cloaky into your system, d-scan for wrecks, warp to a site at range and get a warpin on you for the gank fleet. there are going to be no combat probes out. If they deploy combats, they have already failed to find you the old fashioned way, and if you see them you can warp through safespots until you can log off safely or refit for a cloak and cloak up.

What that means is that if you're in a 100MN T3, you might get out, if you're in a BS with an MJD you will probably get out in time and if you're in a stratios, the cloaking will do very little for you, since you will be targeted by sleepers in a site anyway, so you won't be able to cloak up instantly. But yeah, for the hell of it, do a stratios, at least you can hack relic and data sites with it, as well as scan your way out.

The safest way to do C3s is to find a C3 with a minimal amount of holes and put cloaky alts on all the wormholes with sound turned to the max, that way you can hear people jump in. Anything else is luck based, so you might as well mitigate your losses with a fully insured T1 BS (or a drake, lol drakes). Besides, if mass isn't an issue, a domi can use a cloak and have a probe launcher and two drone links, good drone damage mods and still have a good enough tank to handle c3 sites, plus you can RR your drones and whatnot. Really, the domi works wonders, and it's around 250M, so you get two well fitted domis for the price of one stratios, with about the same cargo capacity and drone capacity.

You can even RR your drones and tank the sleepers through your drones, and have a MJD if you need to gtfo.

In the end, all you need is a ship that can dish out 500+ DPS and tank up to 700 DPS and you can do just about any C3 site. What ship you use really doesn't matter. Play around with EFT and pick what seems the most fun. Then again, all the fun in wormholes is in the PvP, the PvE is there just to make back your losses or buy shiny new crap to get blown up in. It's a lifestyle choice, not a treasure box.
Narzis
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-01-03 12:36:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Narzis
Actually wormhole is a treasure box. Believe me, I used to live in w-space for two years. The most of the non-empty w-space systems is occupied by PVE minded guys and alt corps, whos not willing to fight at all, but making ridiculous amounts of ISKs day-by-day.

How I look like when I win a fight? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/32571986/out-2.gif
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