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Crime & Punishment

 
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High sec pirates and mission runners, be aware of this tactic.

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Victoria Sin
Doomheim
#41 - 2014-01-02 15:59:08 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:

a) Those who play bad guys in a game that's built around being the bad guys and explicitly allows it. They take the game light hearted and care mostly about player interaction.


In my experience the opposite is true. The only time I see smack in local is when some pirate wannabe gets his arse handed to him. Otherwise, this "light-heartedness" of which you speak is actually symptomatic of the sociopathy itself. I mean being a **** is funny to some people, isn't it.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2014-01-02 15:59:34 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Actually it's perfect game design within this very game.


My point precisely, where perfect means typical.
In this game absolutely... and necessary. :)

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#43 - 2014-01-02 16:01:11 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
It is a terrible game mechanic, once again benefiting the sociopaths
How does it in any way benefit sociopaths?
Also, since you're using a definite article, which sociopaths are you talking about?

Quote:
This is the kind of thing that attracts the lowest kind of human to Eve.
What's this “low kind” of human, anyway?
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-01-02 16:02:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Dreamstar
Victoria Sin wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:

a) Those who play bad guys in a game that's built around being the bad guys and explicitly allows it. They take the game light hearted and care mostly about player interaction.


In my experience the opposite is true. The only time I see smack in local is when some pirate wannabe gets his arse handed to him. Otherwise, this "light-heartedness" of which you speak is actually symptomatic of the sociopathy itself. I mean being a **** is funny to some people, isn't it.

We have both types. There are always low lifes who take internet spaceship seriousness to a level that's beyond mental health. I, for one, have met far more mission runners/carebears in general who behave in a questionable way than the other way round, but I do avoid the type if i can. Or exploit their weakness. *pushes up bra*

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#45 - 2014-01-02 16:14:31 UTC
Welcome to EVE, cheaply designed game with 16mil/year research and "development" budget!
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2014-01-02 16:21:01 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
Welcome to EVE, cheaply designed game with 16mil/year research and "development" budget!
Nobody forces you to play it... :)

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#47 - 2014-01-02 17:32:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Victoria Sin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
"Please note that the possibility of losing mission items through theft, damage, sale, or other means is considered an inherent risk in accepting work from agents"-GM


I realise that this is new and shocking to you, but this has been common knowledge since forever.

Still, congratulations on expanding your understanding of the game.


So? That doesn't mean it isn't spectacularly dumb in terms of game design, like quite a few things in Eve. THIS is what the OP is suggesting.


Yea, these CSMs are such a joke. As if I'm the only one who doesn't know about these ridiculous mechanics that are only rewarding for sociopaths.

As with most everything that is wrong with this game, It is not a problem until more people start doing it. So get out there and get your grief on, all you yahoos who get overly excited with the concept of ******* with people who can't fight back.

Of course you can't convince the lumpins that this is an imbalanced conflict mechanic, even though it is clear that it is very easy for a pirate to do, with zero risk, zero cost of failure, and requiring only the ability to use combat scanner probes.

Bringing more friends isn't going to give you victory since a pirate can just blow up the item if he doesn't elect to try and steal it and warp out, in which the determining factor for success is connection speed, not numbers.
Logical 101
PowerCow Farm
#48 - 2014-01-02 17:38:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Logical 101
Nerf Burger wrote:
Stealing or threatening to blow up required mission items is a safe and easy way to earn income as a pirate.

Stealing and threatening to blow things up has always been a safe and easy way to earn income as a pirate.

Nerf Burger wrote:
Remember what happened to miner ganking?

No. Please regale us with these tales of yore.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#49 - 2014-01-02 17:58:44 UTC
Victoria Sin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
"Please note that the possibility of losing mission items through theft, damage, sale, or other means is considered an inherent risk in accepting work from agents"-GM


I realise that this is new and shocking to you, but this has been common knowledge since forever.

Still, congratulations on expanding your understanding of the game.


So? That doesn't mean it isn't spectacularly dumb in terms of game design, like quite a few things in Eve. THIS is what the OP is suggesting.


No it's spectacularly sensible, and full credit for CCP on not compromising on this core principle.

What would be spectacularly dumb would be "fixing" this feature and treating mission runners as some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with, unlike every other profession in EVE.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#50 - 2014-01-02 18:00:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Malcanis wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
"Please note that the possibility of losing mission items through theft, damage, sale, or other means is considered an inherent risk in accepting work from agents"-GM


I realise that this is new and shocking to you, but this has been common knowledge since forever.

Still, congratulations on expanding your understanding of the game.


So? That doesn't mean it isn't spectacularly dumb in terms of game design, like quite a few things in Eve. THIS is what the OP is suggesting.


No it's spectacularly sensible, and full credit for CCP on not compromising on this core principle.

What would be spectacularly dumb would be "fixing" this feature and treating mission runners as some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with, unlike every other profession in EVE.


why don't you try explaining why it should stay instead of making baseless claims.

What does allowing people to screw with you in high sec missions, with zero risk and zero cost, bring to the game? Where the only defense against it is hitting d-scan every second and hoping you don't get warp scrambled by npcs for too long should you detect combat probes. Additionally, if the sociopath decides to stay in the system trying to scan you untill downtime, you are screwed.

It really is disgusting how this game rewards sociopaths and how the community encourages sociopath behavior like this. This game attracts them likes flies and we have to listen to their narrow-minded perspectives disproportionately in every thread because they usually live on these forums as well, having no other social life.
Pipa Porto
#51 - 2014-01-02 18:07:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Nerf Burger wrote:
why don't you try explaining why it should stay instead of making baseless claims.


Because "fixing" the "problem" would necessarily involve
Malcanis wrote:
treating mission runners as some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with, unlike every other profession in EVE.


Also, of course, it's not actually a problem. Anything outside your personal hangars in EVE can be taken from you at any time by anyone. That's how EVE works and has always worked.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#52 - 2014-01-02 18:09:58 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
"Please note that the possibility of losing mission items through theft, damage, sale, or other means is considered an inherent risk in accepting work from agents"-GM


I realise that this is new and shocking to you, but this has been common knowledge since forever.

Still, congratulations on expanding your understanding of the game.


So? That doesn't mean it isn't spectacularly dumb in terms of game design, like quite a few things in Eve. THIS is what the OP is suggesting.


No it's spectacularly sensible, and full credit for CCP on not compromising on this core principle.

What would be spectacularly dumb would be "fixing" this feature and treating mission runners as some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with, unlike every other profession in EVE.


why don't you try explaining why it should stay instead of making baseless claims.

What does allowing people to **** with you in high sec missions, with zero risk and zero cost, bring to the game? Where the only defense is hitting d-scan every second and praying you don't get warp scrambled for too long.

Everything is permitted in EVE Online, short of exploitation or abusive harassment. Maybe it is too easy to pull off, maybe it isn't, or maybe it should have more consequences, but that doesn't mean that it should be disallowed, or that you should be compensated when it occurs.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Logical 101
PowerCow Farm
#53 - 2014-01-02 18:12:05 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
What does allowing people to screw with you in high sec missions, with zero risk and zero cost, bring to the game?

An incredible sense of risk and the potential for catastrophic loss, just as it is with every other aspect of this wonderful game, which doesn't pander to people who want the warm blanket of safety wrapped around them at all times.

This is what EVE is. Either accept it, or go elsewhere. Seriously.
Pontianak Sythaeryn
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2014-01-02 18:14:22 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
No it's spectacularly sensible, and full credit for CCP on not compromising on this core principle.

What would be spectacularly dumb would be "fixing" this feature and treating mission runners as some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with, unlike every other profession in EVE.


So... if the pirate can pretty much screw over the mission runner without any risk, why is the reward in ransoming and tears so great? I only see risk for the mission runner. Doesn't the scenarios laid above conflict with the greater risk, greater reward thing CCP likes? I mean, from my point of view the pirate gets to have a grand ol time with pretty much very little risk, and the mission runner gets kinda hosed for a LOT of risk.

With that said, I've not done any of the cosmos missions, so maybe there is something I'm just missing.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#55 - 2014-01-02 18:20:55 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:

Don't worry high sec mission runners, there is a solution to combat this. All you have to do is hit D-scan every second you are doing the mission and be ready to warp out the moment you see combat probes, even if you have to abandon your drones to do so.


If you abandon your drones they'll still scan out the mission.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#56 - 2014-01-02 18:23:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Logical 101 wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
What does allowing people to screw with you in high sec missions, with zero risk and zero cost, bring to the game?

An incredible sense of risk and the potential for catastrophic loss, just as it is with every other aspect of this wonderful game, which doesn't pander to people who want the warm blanket of safety wrapped around them at all times.

This is what EVE is. Either accept it, or go elsewhere. Seriously.


What do you think low and null are for, genius?
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#57 - 2014-01-02 18:24:11 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Victoria Sin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
"Please note that the possibility of losing mission items through theft, damage, sale, or other means is considered an inherent risk in accepting work from agents"-GM


I realise that this is new and shocking to you, but this has been common knowledge since forever.

Still, congratulations on expanding your understanding of the game.


So? That doesn't mean it isn't spectacularly dumb in terms of game design, like quite a few things in Eve. THIS is what the OP is suggesting.


No it's spectacularly sensible, and full credit for CCP on not compromising on this core principle.

What would be spectacularly dumb would be "fixing" this feature and treating mission runners as some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with, unlike every other profession in EVE.


why don't you try explaining why it should stay instead of making baseless claims.

What does allowing people to screw with you in high sec missions, with zero risk and zero cost, bring to the game? Where the only defense against it is hitting d-scan every second and hoping you don't get warp scrambled by npcs for too long should you detect combat probes. Additionally, if the sociopath decides to stay in the system trying to scan you untill downtime, you are screwed.

It really is disgusting how this game rewards sociopaths and how the community encourages sociopath behavior like this. This game attracts them likes flies and we have to listen to their narrow-minded perspectives disproportionately in every thread because they usually live on these forums as well, having no other social life.


The mnetal image of you smashing keyboard buttons furiously as you try to slam a guy on the internet because you failed to correctly play a video game is hilarious.

EVE is a game of skullduggery. If you want to be safe and left alone, dock up and/or lig out.
Dyvim Slorm
Coven of the Morrigan
#58 - 2014-01-02 18:25:00 UTC
Maybe I'm missing something here (I've no idea what this mission is) but if the drop is that valuable why not have a corp mate ready to scoop it up or use an alt on a second account to grab it fast?

What's a "Wei Todaki" anyway, sounds like something you urinate in Big smile
Carnaby Wakefield
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2014-01-02 18:25:15 UTC
Pontianak Sythaeryn wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
No it's spectacularly sensible, and full credit for CCP on not compromising on this core principle.

What would be spectacularly dumb would be "fixing" this feature and treating mission runners as some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with, unlike every other profession in EVE.


So... if the pirate can pretty much screw over the mission runner without any risk, why is the reward in ransoming and tears so great? I only see risk for the mission runner. Doesn't the scenarios laid above conflict with the greater risk, greater reward thing CCP likes? I mean, from my point of view the pirate gets to have a grand ol time with pretty much very little risk, and the mission runner gets kinda hosed for a LOT of risk.

With that said, I've not done any of the cosmos missions, so maybe there is something I'm just missing.


No your pretty much right, the mission in question spawns in a static system and is 5 deadspace rooms, considered to be the hardest of all Cosmos missions npc wise.

All the pirate needs to do is shadow the mission runner until he hits the last room and everything aggro's onto the mission runner and then the pirate just jumps in and either kills the named npc or loots the npc's wreck while the mission runner is been attacked by a host of npc's.

The mission in question semi-completes when the spawn is killed so you can't even respawn the mission again and your locked out of the chain and the mission runner takes a substantial negative standings hit.

While robbing misson drops and salvaging mission wrecks is all fine and dandy stealing specific mission loot to prevent people completing the mission smacks of griefing.
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#60 - 2014-01-02 18:28:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerf Burger
Pipa Porto wrote:
Nerf Burger wrote:
why don't you try explaining why it should stay instead of making baseless claims.


Because "fixing" the "problem" would necessarily involve
Malcanis wrote:
treating mission runners as some kind of special chosen-kind who may not be touched or interfered with, unlike every other profession in EVE.

.



No, it wouldn't because pirates could still steal mission loot.

Next fail argument.

Try again. Why should pirates be allowed to steal/blow up your required mission items in high sec with zero risk and zero cost to themselves if they should fail? What does that bring to the game?


Actually, on second thought, arguing with Pipa Porto is like arguing with a radio. Just don't.