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Dual character training, what about.....

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#21 - 2014-01-01 13:55:09 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
I'm sorry, character bazaar is 100% pay to win.
…except that you're not paying any kind of advantage that can't be had without paying for it. In fact, it must already have be had without paying for it before you can pay for it — otherwise it would not be available.


Your idea is creating an advantage that only exists for those who pay for it; a way to skip mechanics you don't want to subject yourself to.
The character bazaar only redistributes what is already in the game; at no points are any mechanics skipped.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#22 - 2014-01-01 13:55:23 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
Lets be honest, the layoffs just before Christmas cant be a good sign.
Oh I see. Eve is dying.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-01-01 14:03:31 UTC
Mag's wrote:
P2W is specifically about items not available through normal game play, such as golden ammo etc. Which Eve does not have.



You just argued my point. This idea is not P2W as by your own definition of pay to win it has to be for items/things not available through normal gameplay.

This idea would be available though normal gameplay as you buy plex on the market for ISK. ISK earned through normal gameplay.

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
Mag's
Azn Empire
#24 - 2014-01-01 14:07:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Prie Mary wrote:
Mag's wrote:
P2W is specifically about items not available through normal game play, such as golden ammo etc. Which Eve does not have.



You just argued my point. This idea is not P2W as by your own definition of pay to win it has to be for items/things not available through normal gameplay.

This idea would be available though normal gameplay as you buy plex on the market for ISK. ISK earned through normal gameplay.
But I never said your idea was P2W and my argument against it wasn't based on that. I merely said it fitted Malcanis Law, which is why I said no to it. You really should follow the thread more.

Also no, you still have to buy double speed. Therefore it's not normal game play. Just saying. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-01-01 14:11:53 UTC
Mag's wrote:
You really should follow the thread more.



Maybe should drink less on new years Lol

The whole dual character training which was recentlyish implemented is also Malcanis law. Pretty sure most things can be perceived as such.

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
Mag's
Azn Empire
#26 - 2014-01-01 14:15:35 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
Mag's wrote:
You really should follow the thread more.



Maybe should drink less on new years Lol

The whole dual character training which was recentlyish implemented is also Malcanis law. Pretty sure most things can be perceived as such.
No it really isn't. It's a niche product for certain circumstances. People already have access to second accounts, dual training is for those times when that isn't a viable route.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#27 - 2014-01-01 14:18:31 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
The whole dual character training which was recentlyish implemented is also Malcanis law. Pretty sure most things can be perceived as such.

I can't recall it ever being touted as helping new players, so no, not really…
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-01-01 14:30:45 UTC
Just this morning, I was looking over my list of skills I would like to push from four to five over the next so many months. Only ten more of them to go then I am out of stuff I would like to train! I am entering that area of it I want to continue to train, I better train something.

After seven plus years, at times I wished it would have trained slower...
Milan Nantucket
Doomheim
#29 - 2014-01-01 14:56:05 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
Mag's wrote:
And this idea is all about Malcanis Law. So it's still going to be no.



I'm sorry, character bazaar is 100% pay to win. The character bazaar is also, lets be honest pretty limited to the people with a lot of in game ISK. The average Joe, joining a new MMO isn't going to sink $2000 on plex to purchase a character to give them a fighting chance.

Eve for a long time has marketed itself on alts, trying to entice people into making more and more alts. I genuinely feel this idea, or something like it is along the right lines to enticing the newer guys to stay.

That new average Joe might not sink $2000 into plex to buy a character, but they might in essence pay double subscription for x2 training speed, so they can get into that frigate, battleship, carrier etc quicker to enjoy the game more. Which over time might turn into that $2000 extra for CCP.

All those support skills are essential, but take time. Time which people don't like.


Lets be honest, the layoffs just before Christmas cant be a good sign.


Actually your wrong on the pay to win theory. See every one of those toons had to be trained by someone. They payed in either plex or sub to train that character. I have more SP than most of those toons for sale yet I was never bought or sold and I always win.

Another reason if your not bright enough to see it is that SP has nothing to do with winning. I have low sp toons that farm FW plexes and they have more isk than me.

By suggesting to increase learning speed with use of a plex just means more characters on the bazaar dropping the price of toons. Do the maths.
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-01-01 14:57:21 UTC
Guttripper wrote:
Just this morning, I was looking over my list of skills I would like to push from four to five over the next so many months. Only ten more of them to go then I am out of stuff I would like to train! I am entering that area of it I want to continue to train, I better train something.

After seven plus years, at times I wished it would have trained slower...



You are one of the lucky few.

I guess to really play a game I need to check whats in beta testing, and jump on it like a tramp on chips as soon as its released to avoid falling behind the curve

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
Magna Mortem
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-01-01 16:08:22 UTC
Democracy should be abolished.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#32 - 2014-01-01 18:40:29 UTC
Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.

ISD LackOfFaith

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

I do not respond to Eve Mail or anything other than the forums.
Jessica Danikov
Network Danikov
#33 - 2014-01-01 23:18:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessica Danikov
Magna Mortem wrote:
Democracy should be abolished.


How does that quote go?

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

No, wait, I have a better one for this thread.

No. No!

Unhuh.. Uhuh..

No. No no no.

NO. HELL NO.

No! I refu... no! No!


Edit: Just to clarify, I think this proposal is really bad idea.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#34 - 2014-01-01 23:32:41 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
The Jita node would crash from the amount of laser fire the monument would be taking.

Yes, but what a pretty sight it would be... Twisted

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#35 - 2014-01-02 00:56:50 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
Another nice option, in my opinion atleast, would be plex for multiplied training speed.


Hell naw.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#36 - 2014-01-02 02:46:12 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
Have to point out, isn't just having the character bazzar making the game pay 2 win. If I wanted I could on day 1 buy enough plex to sell, and purchase a 100+mil sp character....

By your logic that's training at 100milsp per day :O pay 2 win ^^


granted you are right but atleast its a seemingly legit way for people to trade characters insted of people getting RL scammed or doing RMT for charaters on 3rd party sites

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#37 - 2014-01-02 05:00:40 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
This accelerated training I feel would not only help new players catch up to the curve, but also address problems with mandatory ships/fits required in 0.0 which do change as, CCP is constantly changing its game, tweeking certain ships/modules.

There is no such thing as catching up in EvE - even newer player can find a role in fleet that they can do with low SP and have fun.
Fleet doctrines usually have multiple variants of fits for characters with various proficiency in that ship - they rarely require more than a couple of months to train (unless T2 ships or caps) so there are no problems there.

All your proposal would achieve is adding a mandatory additional payment for benefits you cannot get otherwise. Also with double training speed new players either they will become bored faster or get into expensive ship without appropriate knowledge to fly it and will lose it in some stupid way (they will do it anyway, but at early stage of the game they are more likely to rage quit).

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-01-02 05:44:21 UTC
Prie Mary wrote:
Prie Mary wrote:
Have to point out, isn't just having the character bazzar making the game pay 2 win. If I wanted I could on day 1 buy enough plex to sell, and purchase a 100+mil sp character....

By your logic that's training at 100milsp per day :O pay 2 win ^^

^ game is p2w already guys

Which is why a noob can buy a toon with full officer fit pirate faction battleship and then go dominate lowsec pvp with almost no experience. Pretty game-breaking if you ask me.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Prie Mary
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#39 - 2014-01-02 09:47:00 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Which is why a noob can buy a toon with full officer fit pirate faction battleship and then go dominate lowsec pvp with almost no experience. Pretty game-breaking if you ask me.



Sounds like you have experience in this TwistedLol

I'm pretty surprised at all the negativity this idea had, thought I was onto a winner!!

I've pretty much attempted to defend the thread against all opposing views but I feel I'd just be repeating myself or playing tit for tat type thing.

I do hope something like this happens in the future as it does make the game easier for new players to get into.

Dont just [u]think[/u] outside the box, [u]Live[/u] outside of it...
Nethraniel
IG Metall
#40 - 2014-01-02 11:46:05 UTC
I think even on the long run, PLEX for double SP gains would cause a higher usage of PLEX and therefore more money for CCP.

Why this should be P2W I cannot really grasp... because training skills faster is win?

I have only a 5.x M SP main, and I hate to wait for several month to get all the nice and shiny fitting options to be as flexible in play style as I want to be.

Also I do not like to use secondary chars or to multibox my way through EVE... so if I want to change my approach to something in EVE, I have to get new skills and wait again for several month.

Why should it be bad to pay double so I do not have to learn skills for 10 month but only for 5 month?

It is not P2W and it does not bash the economy of EVE, it will on the other hand increase PLEX demand. I mean every single PLEX in EVE is bought by someone using real money, so I guess it will be also nice for CCP...

Old chars do not profit that much from hightened SP gains, new chars get to do more interesting things faster without getting the feeling that it will take ages to get to all the stuff you read everywhere in the forums.

So I second this idea.
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