These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Why do people fly BS?

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2014-01-02 08:15:46 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
Kawaiian Breeze wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
No. This is so wrong lol. A cruiser fleet will rip a battleship fleet apart. If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships + will have vastly increases speeds, vastly reduced sigs, much more cap and will apply 100% of their damage


Let me tell you about Bouncer IIs



Doesn't really say much because the T3 fleet was out numbered 3 to 1, plus the Domi's had a pretty good sized logistics fleet along with them. Of course they are gonna eat up the T3 fleet with that much help and support.

+ it ignores one of the primary issues with battleships (BS weapons vs small ships) + ignores the OP'ness of assigning drones to a fast locking drone bunny.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#42 - 2014-01-02 08:21:53 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships.

T3s are irrelevant when discussing ship balance. Wait until they are nerfed and then we can see how they compare to BSes (they won't lol).

Oh god.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#43 - 2014-01-02 08:23:20 UTC
Blastermega has no issues tracking orbiting fighters and the new rage raven rip cruisers apart.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2014-01-02 08:46:11 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships.

T3s are irrelevant when discussing ship balance. Wait until they are nerfed and then we can see how they compare to BSes (they won't lol).

Let's not pretend we know anything about what the T3 rebalance is going to look like.
HAC fleets easily compare, so there's no reason to suggest automatically that T3 won't.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2014-01-02 08:46:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships.

T3s are irrelevant when discussing ship balance. Wait until they are nerfed and then we can see how they compare to BSes (they won't lol).

hmmmmmm

So we should ignore an entire class of ship currently in game that directly competes with battleships based on a possible future nerf the details of which we know absolutely nothing.

I guess we can ignore the whines from Goons regarding slowcats since they're irrelevent because one day there may be a nerf of drones and drone assist.

Thanks for clearing that all up.

Edit: damn beaten by a goon ^^

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2014-01-02 08:51:09 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
I just know CCP is going to think "jack of all trades" when looking at T3, and that's probably what the first balance pass is going to look like.
They don't seem to get the point that this is a ******** way to balance a ship (see: Gnosis, and the Nestor proposal) because people don't use ships that can do everything okay, they use ships that can do things really well. Nobody uses T3s because they can do a lot of things, they use them because they do specific tasks really well. If any given task a T3 can do is done better by another ship, people will simply fly that ship instead.
T3s are ubiquitous because they can be configured to do a lot of things really well (but not at the same time). This needs to be preserved, while ensuring that they don't trample on roles taken up by other ships.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#47 - 2014-01-02 08:56:36 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I just know CCP is going to think "jack of all trades" when looking at T3, and that's probably what the first balance pass is going to look like.
They don't seem to get the point that this is a ******** way to balance a ship (see: Gnosis, and the Nestor proposal) because people don't use ships that can do everything okay, they use ships that can do things really well. Nobody uses T3s because they can do a lot of things, they use them because they do specific tasks really well. If any given task a T3 can do is done better by another ship, people will simply fly that ship instead.
T3s are ubiquitous because they can be configured to do a lot of things really well (but not at the same time). This needs to be preserved, while ensuring that they don't trample on roles taken up by other ships.

So... no more proteus fleets jumping into a mass of totally balanced drone assisting dominixes?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#48 - 2014-01-02 08:57:19 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Let's not pretend we know anything about what the T3 rebalance is going to look like.

I've seen pictures which give quite a clear indication of what the rebalance will look like. It had T3 Cruisers and Navy Cruisers right next to eachother.

Oh god.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2014-01-02 08:57:49 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Yeah, that too. Would you really deprive us the pleasure of killing fleets of these things, CCP?

Riot Girl wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Let's not pretend we know anything about what the T3 rebalance is going to look like.

I've seen pictures which give quite a clear indication of what the rebalance will look like. It had T3 Cruisers and Navy Cruisers right next to eachother.

Indeed, let's base predictions on balance by a picture dev made in photoshop in 2 minutes.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#50 - 2014-01-02 08:58:47 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
So we should ignore an entire class of ship currently in game

I didn't say the class should be ignored. I said it's irrelevant to balance discussions because it's a freak of nature. Purge it with fire.

Oh god.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2014-01-02 09:00:56 UTC
Also putting T3s on par with navy cruisers is idiotic.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2014-01-02 09:06:39 UTC
You apparently have never had your cruiser blapped by a Megathron that is scram+webbing you down to 50m/s.

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#53 - 2014-01-02 09:09:26 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Also putting T3s on par with navy cruisers is idiotic.

How come? The way I see it, T3s are probably going to become a cheap alternative to T2 cruisers while offering better performance than T1s. People might complain about the T3 skill training thing, but it's still easier to train a T3 than it is to train all specialised T2 ships. I can't say exactly what is going to happen, but I feel they're probably going to end up as a stepping stone between T1 ships and specialised T2 ships while retaining their versatility for fittings (plus I think there was something about refitting in space and replaceable rigs idk).

Oh god.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#54 - 2014-01-02 09:09:44 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Riot Girl wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships.

T3s are irrelevant when discussing ship balance. Wait until they are nerfed and then we can see how they compare to BSes (they won't lol).

hmmmmmm

So we should ignore an entire class of ship currently in game that directly competes with battleships based on a possible future nerf the details of which we know absolutely nothing.

I guess we can ignore the whines from Goons regarding slowcats since they're irrelevent because one day there may be a nerf of drones and drone assist.

Thanks for clearing that all up.

Edit: damn beaten by a goon ^^


We do know that they will land between t1 And t2. Perhaps slightly better than faction and they will not be better in any specialised role. This means a rather big nerf is on the way.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2014-01-02 09:12:27 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Also putting T3s on par with navy cruisers is idiotic.

How come? The way I see it, T3s are probably going to become a cheap alternative to T2 cruisers while offering better performance than T1s. People might complain about the T3 skill training thing, but it's still easier to train a T3 than it is to train all specialised T2 ships. I can't say exactly what is going to happen, but I feel they're probably going to end up as a stepping stone between T1 ships and specialised T2 ships while retaining their versatility for fittings (plus I think there was something about refitting in space and replaceable rigs idk).

Which again means that nobody who can fly T2 has any use for a T3.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2014-01-02 09:14:56 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
I'm not asking for T3 to be better than T2 in specific roles, note. I'm asking for them to have different roles, as opposed to the proposed "every role T2 has but worse."

If the Legion and Loki make better HACs than Zealots and Muninns, then why do people fly Zealots and Muninns?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#57 - 2014-01-02 09:19:41 UTC
Well that just goes back to what you were saying about speculations. With the versatility for roles and fittings, maybe even T2 trained pilots will find unique roles for T3s. Not only that, but I imagine T3s will come down in price to be closer to faction cruisers, so that would make them desirable to T2 trained pilots if it should turn out that way.

Oh god.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2014-01-02 09:21:19 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Well that just goes back to what you were saying about speculations. With the versatility for roles and fittings, maybe even T2 trained pilots will find unique roles for T3s. Not only that, but I imagine T3s will come down in price to be closer to faction cruisers, so that would make them desirable to T2 trained pilots if it should turn out that way.

Possibly. I don't have much faith in CCP being able to rebalance them this carefully.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2014-01-02 09:23:49 UTC
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:
So BS align, move and warp the slowest of all subcaps, they have have poor resists, a huge sig radius, are outtanked by pretty much everything when factoring in sigtanking, speedtanking etc, their guns have have terrible signature resolutions, track shockingly bad, there is not a single viable T2 B2 to advance to, there's no single cov ops variant available despite all the other drawbacks and they're the most skill intense and most expensive T1 subcaps there are.

So what's the point?



Maybe because they are the most powerful cost efficiency wise?

What is your subcapital counter to a fleet of sentry dominixes supported by remote repair?




GRanted CCP made Battleships too weak with the pass of years, but a few of them still are useful.

CCP has a very very strong resistance towards increasing DPS even more, but other thigns can be made. THe MJD was a great move by CCP, creating a power on battleships that is unrivaled by other ships.

A few other options as the MJD would go great for battleships. That and a few large modules could receive some buffs,

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#60 - 2014-01-02 09:28:44 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
What is your subcapital counter to a fleet of sentry dominixes supported by remote repair?

You're supporting your point about battleships with the most overpowered subcapital fleet composition there is.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)