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Why do people fly BS?

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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#21 - 2014-01-02 03:07:06 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
I've often wondered why a battleship has slower lock-on times than smaller ships, especially considering that their signal strength is higher.

So ... bigger ship = more sensors = more sensor strength but bigger ship = more sensors = slower lock on-time?

I know that reality tends to take a back seat to game balance, but that little "feature" is really breaking my suspension of disbelief.

Yes, I can see how targeting a bigger ship would take less time than a smaller ship, after all it has a larger signature radius. But then adding more penalties to this by giving bigger ships crap lock on times is too much.

Because insta-locking battleships camping stargates should totally be a thing.


It's all about game balance. Slow locking times for larger ships forces people to vary their fleets and provides a way for smaller, faster ships (that can't match a larger ship in raw power) the ability to disengage.

How did you Veterans start?
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-01-02 03:09:42 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
I've often wondered why a battleship has slower lock-on times than smaller ships, especially considering that their signal strength is higher.

So ... bigger ship = more sensors = more sensor strength but bigger ship = more sensors = slower lock on-time?

I know that reality tends to take a back seat to game balance, but that little "feature" is really breaking my suspension of disbelief.

Yes, I can see how targeting a bigger ship would take less time than a smaller ship, after all it has a larger signature radius. But then adding more penalties to this by giving bigger ships crap lock on times is too much.



Suspension of disbelief in a game where the physics are based on rubber duckies floating in a bath-tub ?
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#23 - 2014-01-02 03:13:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Ptraci
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:
So BS align, move and warp the slowest of all subcaps, they have have poor resists, a huge sig radius, are outtanked by pretty much everything when factoring in sigtanking, speedtanking etc, their guns have have terrible signature resolutions, track shockingly bad, there is not a single viable T2 B2 to advance to, there's no single cov ops variant available despite all the other drawbacks and they're the most skill intense and most expensive T1 subcaps there are.

So what's the point?


Because they will rip apart a fleet of cruisers in 10 seconds flat. BS on its own is shockingly vulnerable. A few BS with logi support are an impressive force - the alpha alone will instapop most targets if the fleet is being flown properly by disciplined pilots. Frigates are not usually a threat, the BS can just warp off/gate jump away/microjump out of the way. Against bigger stuff like fast hacs, etc, well that's what the logi is for, and the BS has a huge, huge buffer tank. Every ship has a function in Eve. Every single one has a niche.
Shepard Wong Ogeko
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2014-01-02 03:23:51 UTC
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-01-02 03:53:17 UTC
TBH if the OP just wants a much tougher ship that otherwise behaves like a frigate they should look at training for Assault Frigates.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#26 - 2014-01-02 05:12:13 UTC
Battleships are fine, they simply need more thought.
Daimon Kaiera
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-01-02 05:33:36 UTC
Nerf afk cloaking

.... . .-.. .--. / .. / .... .- ...- . / ..-. .- .-.. .-.. . -. / .- -. -.. / .. / -.-. .- -. -. --- - / --. . - / ..- .--. / ... - --- .--. - .... .. ... / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. . / .. -.. . .- / .. ... / -. --- - / ... - --- .-.. . -. / ... - --- .--.
Tetsuo Tsukaya
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-01-02 05:38:43 UTC
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Marauders are actually a viable upgrade. One can argue the cost is questionable & that they could be better designed, but the ship itself is a decent step from their T1 cousins now.
They also don't have poor resists, the T1 BS have identical resists to all T1 ships. Only the T2 ships have lower resists.
Sig & Speed tanking can be countered by TP's & Webs. So when you need 'in your face' brute force tanking, the BS does it.
They also have huge range when you consider snipers, large DPS compared in most cases to other subcaps.

So.... that's why people use them.



It's a step from their T1 counterparts - agreed - but the T1 counterparts are atrocious.

T2 have lower resists? Thats new to me.

Sig & speed tanking can be countered with webs and TPs - yes - but BS come perma webbed and TPd right out of the box, at any range and navy BCs have higher EHP.

I agree on the range, but whilst EFT DPS look kind of 'meh' the actual applied DPS is poor due to their guns sig resolution and poor tracking.


Battleships meant to be flown in supported fleets and not very strong solo. Wonders never cease...
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#29 - 2014-01-02 05:55:09 UTC
Tetsuo Tsukaya wrote:
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Marauders are actually a viable upgrade. One can argue the cost is questionable & that they could be better designed, but the ship itself is a decent step from their T1 cousins now.
They also don't have poor resists, the T1 BS have identical resists to all T1 ships. Only the T2 ships have lower resists.
Sig & Speed tanking can be countered by TP's & Webs. So when you need 'in your face' brute force tanking, the BS does it.
They also have huge range when you consider snipers, large DPS compared in most cases to other subcaps.

So.... that's why people use them.



It's a step from their T1 counterparts - agreed - but the T1 counterparts are atrocious.

T2 have lower resists? Thats new to me.

Sig & speed tanking can be countered with webs and TPs - yes - but BS come perma webbed and TPd right out of the box, at any range and navy BCs have higher EHP.

I agree on the range, but whilst EFT DPS look kind of 'meh' the actual applied DPS is poor due to their guns sig resolution and poor tracking.


Battleships meant to be flown in supported fleets and not very strong solo. Wonders never cease...


The raven hulls are rather good at solo work.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2014-01-02 06:15:00 UTC
The Typhoon isn't bad either.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#31 - 2014-01-02 06:20:51 UTC
My wonderful geddon. Oh how useful you are friend.

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."
Cheng Musana
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2014-01-02 06:26:59 UTC
PVE and fleet fights where you just need more DPS then a cruiser could offer. Plus domis are pretty versatile with their drones and highslots beeing used for utility like neuts.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2014-01-02 07:14:28 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:
So BS align, move and warp the slowest of all subcaps, they have have poor resists, a huge sig radius, are outtanked by pretty much everything when factoring in sigtanking, speedtanking etc, their guns have have terrible signature resolutions, track shockingly bad, there is not a single viable T2 B2 to advance to, there's no single cov ops variant available despite all the other drawbacks and they're the most skill intense and most expensive T1 subcaps there are.

So what's the point?


Because they will rip apart a fleet of cruisers in 10 seconds flat. BS on its own is shockingly vulnerable. A few BS with logi support are an impressive force - the alpha alone will instapop most targets if the fleet is being flown properly by disciplined pilots. Frigates are not usually a threat, the BS can just warp off/gate jump away/microjump out of the way. Against bigger stuff like fast hacs, etc, well that's what the logi is for, and the BS has a huge, huge buffer tank. Every ship has a function in Eve. Every single one has a niche.

No. This is so wrong lol. A cruiser fleet will rip a battleship fleet apart. If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships + will have vastly increases speeds, vastly reduced sigs, much more cap and will apply 100% of their damage.

The battleship has no function other than cheap fleet fodder or ranged combat fleet. There are much better options like T3 and HAC fleets they simply cost more. Take away the insurance away from the battleship and it would only ever be used for sniping.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#34 - 2014-01-02 07:18:48 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:
So BS align, move and warp the slowest of all subcaps, they have have poor resists, a huge sig radius, are outtanked by pretty much everything when factoring in sigtanking, speedtanking etc, their guns have have terrible signature resolutions, track shockingly bad, there is not a single viable T2 B2 to advance to, there's no single cov ops variant available despite all the other drawbacks and they're the most skill intense and most expensive T1 subcaps there are.

So what's the point?


Because they will rip apart a fleet of cruisers in 10 seconds flat. BS on its own is shockingly vulnerable. A few BS with logi support are an impressive force - the alpha alone will instapop most targets if the fleet is being flown properly by disciplined pilots. Frigates are not usually a threat, the BS can just warp off/gate jump away/microjump out of the way. Against bigger stuff like fast hacs, etc, well that's what the logi is for, and the BS has a huge, huge buffer tank. Every ship has a function in Eve. Every single one has a niche.

No. This is so wrong lol. A cruiser fleet will rip a battleship fleet apart. If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships + will have vastly increases speeds, vastly reduced sigs, much more cap and will apply 100% of their damage.

The battleship has no function other than cheap fleet fodder or ranged combat fleet. There are much better options like T3 and HAC fleets they simply cost more. Take away the insurance away from the battleship and it would only ever be used for sniping.


And yet the legion fleets got torn apart in the Fountain war by mega fleet.
Kawaiian Breeze
Doomheim
#35 - 2014-01-02 07:19:28 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
No. This is so wrong lol. A cruiser fleet will rip a battleship fleet apart. If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships + will have vastly increases speeds, vastly reduced sigs, much more cap and will apply 100% of their damage


Let me tell you about Bouncer IIs
TharOkha
0asis Group
#36 - 2014-01-02 07:40:26 UTC
Faction and T2 variants are good. But T1 are horrible at everything (except sentry domis). And now with warp changes they suck a little bit more.

While sub-BS t1 ships are very good , T1 BS are simply bad.

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2014-01-02 07:43:31 UTC
Kawaiian Breeze wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
No. This is so wrong lol. A cruiser fleet will rip a battleship fleet apart. If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships + will have vastly increases speeds, vastly reduced sigs, much more cap and will apply 100% of their damage


Let me tell you about Bouncer IIs

A carrier will rip apart subcaps with bouncer II's. Does that mean since the carrier is a capital that capitals are great for killing subcaps. No. Just like the super carrier, the carrier, the Dominix, Gila, Ishtar....the Slowcat scourge of Goonspace they're all good at sub cap warfare because they all share a specific element. One that is not specific to the majority of Battleships.

Its disingenuous, somewhat like saying all battleships are fine because the Mach is fine...

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#38 - 2014-01-02 08:01:49 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:
So BS align, move and warp the slowest of all subcaps, they have have poor resists, a huge sig radius, are outtanked by pretty much everything when factoring in sigtanking, speedtanking etc, their guns have have terrible signature resolutions, track shockingly bad, there is not a single viable T2 B2 to advance to, there's no single cov ops variant available despite all the other drawbacks and they're the most skill intense and most expensive T1 subcaps there are.

So what's the point?


Because they will rip apart a fleet of cruisers in 10 seconds flat. BS on its own is shockingly vulnerable. A few BS with logi support are an impressive force - the alpha alone will instapop most targets if the fleet is being flown properly by disciplined pilots. Frigates are not usually a threat, the BS can just warp off/gate jump away/microjump out of the way. Against bigger stuff like fast hacs, etc, well that's what the logi is for, and the BS has a huge, huge buffer tank. Every ship has a function in Eve. Every single one has a niche.

No. This is so wrong lol. A cruiser fleet will rip a battleship fleet apart. If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships + will have vastly increases speeds, vastly reduced sigs, much more cap and will apply 100% of their damage.

The battleship has no function other than cheap fleet fodder or ranged combat fleet. There are much better options like T3 and HAC fleets they simply cost more. Take away the insurance away from the battleship and it would only ever be used for sniping.


And yet the legion fleets got torn apart in the Fountain war by mega fleet.

grrr, blobbers

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#39 - 2014-01-02 08:09:59 UTC
Ignoring T3 Cruisers, that aren't really cruisers but are BS on Overpowered steroids with cruiser sig & speed.....
A BS fleet built well can take on a cruiser fleet. It depends on fleet composition and what the two have been built to fight.
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#40 - 2014-01-02 08:10:26 UTC
Kawaiian Breeze wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
No. This is so wrong lol. A cruiser fleet will rip a battleship fleet apart. If its T3 cruisers the T3's will have bigger buffer tanks than the battleships + will have vastly increases speeds, vastly reduced sigs, much more cap and will apply 100% of their damage


Let me tell you about Bouncer IIs



Doesn't really say much because the T3 fleet was out numbered 3 to 1, plus the Domi's had a pretty good sized logistics fleet along with them. Of course they are gonna eat up the T3 fleet with that much help and support.