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Why do people fly BS?

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Gulliver Kilmister
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-01-02 00:14:35 UTC
So BS align, move and warp the slowest of all subcaps, they have have poor resists, a huge sig radius, are outtanked by pretty much everything when factoring in sigtanking, speedtanking etc, their guns have have terrible signature resolutions, track shockingly bad, there is not a single viable T2 B2 to advance to, there's no single cov ops variant available despite all the other drawbacks and they're the most skill intense and most expensive T1 subcaps there are.

So what's the point?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#2 - 2014-01-02 00:17:55 UTC
Marauders are actually a viable upgrade. One can argue the cost is questionable & that they could be better designed, but the ship itself is a decent step from their T1 cousins now.
They also don't have poor resists, the T1 BS have identical resists to all T1 ships. Only the T2 ships have lower resists.
Sig & Speed tanking can be countered by TP's & Webs. So when you need 'in your face' brute force tanking, the BS does it.
They also have huge range when you consider snipers, large DPS compared in most cases to other subcaps.

So.... that's why people use them.
Gulliver Kilmister
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2014-01-02 00:32:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Gulliver Kilmister
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Marauders are actually a viable upgrade. One can argue the cost is questionable & that they could be better designed, but the ship itself is a decent step from their T1 cousins now.
They also don't have poor resists, the T1 BS have identical resists to all T1 ships. Only the T2 ships have lower resists.
Sig & Speed tanking can be countered by TP's & Webs. So when you need 'in your face' brute force tanking, the BS does it.
They also have huge range when you consider snipers, large DPS compared in most cases to other subcaps.

So.... that's why people use them.



It's a step from their T1 counterparts - agreed - but the T1 counterparts are atrocious.

T2 have lower resists? Thats new to me.

Sig & speed tanking can be countered with webs and TPs - yes - but BS come perma webbed and TPd right out of the box, at any range and navy BCs have higher EHP.

I agree on the range, but whilst EFT DPS look kind of 'meh' the actual applied DPS is poor due to their guns sig resolution and poor tracking.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#4 - 2014-01-02 00:35:41 UTC
T2 BS have lower Resists than T2 Cruisers (Like HAC's). Not lower than T1.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#5 - 2014-01-02 00:42:18 UTC
Machariel

/Thread
Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
#6 - 2014-01-02 00:47:27 UTC
I like Battleships.

Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!
Garandras
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-01-02 00:51:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Garandras
Battleships are good fun.. love the Mach gotta train into blops still myself but looking forward to it.

Also nuet Geddon useful/annoying
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#8 - 2014-01-02 00:52:38 UTC
The level 4 mission effect also puts a lot of people into BS, who then want to use that training elsewhere.
Basically lvl 4 missions are tricky to do in non BS ships, due to the DPS output needed sometimes to break the NPC BS tanks. T3 cruisers can do it and if you are good, you can do it with some of the smaller T2's.
Or simply as a fleet in smaller T1's (A few Cruisers working together for example).

As do Null fleet doctrines when you are engaging structures as part of your objectives.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2014-01-02 00:59:10 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Some battleships are quite good for null pvp. Dominix and Megathron are excellent. Apoc Navy Issue is popular. Armageddons are great neuting ships.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-01-02 01:03:42 UTC
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:
So what's the point?


That's supposed to be your job. Figure it out.

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2014-01-02 01:05:18 UTC
They're only useful for two things. Shooting red squares and as disposable fleet ships due to insurance and range projection.

They have been nerfed so hard its very difficult to justify using them over something else in game.

Subcap killing: BC, T3 and even carriers > BS due to weapon size, tracking, lock time and speed.
Tanking: T3's have more EHP amplified by small sig radius and speed.
Small gangs: Warp speeds, agility, speed make them undesirable.
Gate camping: Mobility, locktime, damage application make them undesirable.
Combat anoms - you can use 2 or 3 RR BS to run a 10/10 or 1 Hac to run the same combat anom due to to BS's aweful sig radius and citidel torp application (20k damage vs Ishtar / Tengu 1k or less) as well as damage application (BS Torps or Cruise (bad) vs Tengu HAM (good) or Ishtar Sentry (excellent), mobility, cloakability (lock time nerfage)).

BS have all the negatives of a capital but not the EHP / mobility (jump drive) of one.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#12 - 2014-01-02 01:20:04 UTC
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:
So BS align, move and warp the slowest of all subcaps, they have have poor resists, a huge sig radius, are outtanked by pretty much everything when factoring in sigtanking, speedtanking etc, their guns have have terrible signature resolutions, track shockingly bad, there is not a single viable T2 B2 to advance to, there's no single cov ops variant available despite all the other drawbacks and they're the most skill intense and most expensive T1 subcaps there are.

So what's the point?


EHP

Although, in the age of the assigned sentry drone blap, that doesnt really help much. You are correct sir, there is no longer any reason to fly battleships. Everyone train archons!
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2014-01-02 01:35:10 UTC
In the case of Incursion they are the best thing for the job.

In the case of PvP ... who told you about BS ??? There are no BS, please step away from the keyboard and keep your hands in plain sight.

In the case of ratting ... HACs like the Ishtar and T3s like the Legion and Tengu can get access to places BS are banned from so you see few BS.

In the case of Level IV mission running, well level IVs are a doddle once your skills are up and you can do level IVs in an assault frigate if you want ... but battleships make for stress free mission grinding.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#14 - 2014-01-02 01:41:05 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
They're only useful for two things. Shooting red squares and as disposable fleet ships due to insurance and range projection.


This is a good two sentence explanation. Luckily, lots of people like shooting red squares.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#15 - 2014-01-02 02:00:58 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Battleships, like any ship, have pros and cons... strengths and weaknesses... compared to other ships in different tactics.

From a solo and small gang perspective they lack mobility, the ability to dictate range, and are vulnerable to numerous smaller ships.
Ergo... they are inferior in this regard.


But with liberal amounts of support and/or smashing structures are the order of the day then few other sub-capitals have the staying power (tank) or the firepower (DPS) that a battleship has combined into one hull.

Basically... battleships are "one trick ponies." And it's a good trick. People will continue using them because when you need to stay on the field for a long time and hit hard while doing it, nothing comes close to the usefulness of a battleship.

How did you Veterans start?
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#16 - 2014-01-02 02:07:30 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The rules:
5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.



That said, I wish you all a good and happy 2014!

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Gulliver Kilmister
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2014-01-02 02:15:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Gulliver Kilmister
ISD Ezwal wrote:



That said, I wish you all a good and happy 2014!


Thanks for cleaning out the rubbish and all the best wishes for the new year and thanks for all the interesting posts pointing out minor niches for BS.
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#18 - 2014-01-02 02:20:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Gulliver Kilmister wrote:
So BS align, move and warp the slowest of all subcaps, they have have poor resists, a huge sig radius, are outtanked by pretty much everything when factoring in sigtanking, speedtanking etc, their guns have have terrible signature resolutions, track shockingly bad, there is not a single viable T2 B2 to advance to, there's no single cov ops variant available despite all the other drawbacks and they're the most skill intense and most expensive T1 subcaps there are.

So what's the point?


Afaik the Ishtar and tengu are the best PVE cruisers. The dominix (battleship) has the same tracking as the Ishtar and more gun dps, and can run 4 damage mods as well as an armor tank, leaving it more midslots free for applied dps mods.

ie I wound up using the Ishtar for null ratting against kin/therm shooting rats, but prefer dominix for highsec missioning.

The kronos is an oddball, it does a few missions faster than a dominix (particularly those that blasters will apply properly in), and some it just cannot beat a dominix, whether or not it has rails or blasters - about all you can do with it is salvage on the fly to boost isk/hr.

All marauders can now bastion tank ridiculous amounts of dps, so can solo a lot of L5s and one imagines that both neuting/webbing L5s and neuting/webbing high level sleepers can probably be cheesed by dropping a can of cap charges from an alignment hauler (one that you don't care if it explodes anyway) - so yes there is a lot of stuff a solo marauder can do that neither a battleship nor cruiser can with a little prep in the encounter.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#19 - 2014-01-02 02:35:12 UTC
I've often wondered why a battleship has slower lock-on times than smaller ships, especially considering that their signal strength is higher.

So ... bigger ship = more sensors = more sensor strength but bigger ship = more sensors = slower lock on-time?

I know that reality tends to take a back seat to game balance, but that little "feature" is really breaking my suspension of disbelief.

Yes, I can see how targeting a bigger ship would take less time than a smaller ship, after all it has a larger signature radius. But then adding more penalties to this by giving bigger ships crap lock on times is too much.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#20 - 2014-01-02 02:40:28 UTC
Why fly BS?

4 words:

New Sexy Megathron hull.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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