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Petition to Ban Isobox/Vec, bots and other similar program

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Dave Stark
#161 - 2014-01-01 15:10:42 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
for what I read in EULA and what isbox in fact is,


except it isn't (you'd know if you'd read it) and ccp seem to agree. they even released a devblog saying multiboxing is fine.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#162 - 2014-01-01 15:13:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Magna Mortem wrote:
Saw a nice piece of text. ISBoxer creates input.

Wrong.

Duplicating information which is already provided in a system does not equal inputting information into the system.


not wrong but very very true.
isbox copies input performed by user and reproduces it into many other clients. It is a clear case of automation, read my previous posts why it is.
Basically it allows you to drag a horde of bots running together with you imitating your actions, which is a very very efficient approach for many activities in eve which wouldnt be possible without use of that software.


Dave Stark wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
for what I read in EULA and what isbox in fact is,

except it isn't (you'd know if you'd read it) and ccp seem to agree. they even released a devblog saying multiboxing is fine.

noone argues about multiboxing here. Topic is isbox which is more than that.
For pure multiboxing you dont need 3rd party tools.
Dave Stark
#163 - 2014-01-01 15:15:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Robert Caldera wrote:
noone argues about multiboxing here.

considering that's the topic of the thread.....

oh and they also said the software to assist with it was fine.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#164 - 2014-01-01 15:16:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Dave Stark wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
noone argues about multiboxing here.

considering that's the topic of the thread.....


topic of the thread is isbox and similar tools, not multiboxing.
You dont need these tools for multiboxing.

EDIT:
Do you actually have difficulties reading stuff? I explained exactly this already in my previous posting.
Magna Mortem
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2014-01-01 15:17:29 UTC
Adding new information is completely different to duplicating already provided information. This is completely unrelated to software and simply a fact of the matter.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#166 - 2014-01-01 15:18:46 UTC
Magna Mortem wrote:
Adding new information is completely different to duplicating already provided information. This is completely unrelated to software and simply a fact of the matter.


use google and search for automation. You will find answers.
Magna Mortem
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#167 - 2014-01-01 15:19:29 UTC
You need to understand that your logic is sound, but built on the wrong assumptions. You lack basic understanding of how to analyse a problem properly.
Magna Mortem
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#168 - 2014-01-01 15:20:50 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Magna Mortem wrote:
Adding new information is completely different to duplicating already provided information. This is completely unrelated to software and simply a fact of the matter.


use google and search for automation. You will find answers.
Use google and learn what the difference between duplication and creation of information is, which has nothing to do with software at all.
Magna Mortem
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#169 - 2014-01-01 15:21:37 UTC
OP displays Dunning-Krueger syndrome.
Inspiration
#170 - 2014-01-01 15:22:26 UTC
It is so easy to fix this issue, spawn many more smaller fields and make the big ones a little smaller. Also do not restrict them to specific systems. Makes it less attractive for a large group or a concentrated single player multi-boxing.

I am serious!

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#171 - 2014-01-01 15:22:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Magna Mortem wrote:
You need to understand that your logic is sound, but built on the wrong assumptions. You lack basic understanding of how to analyse a problem properly.


which you are of course capable of, right?
Then explain why people who drag a horde of copycat bots with them using said 3rd party tools are not automating anything?

Magna Mortem wrote:
Use google and learn what the difference between duplication and creation of information is, which has nothing to do with software at all.


its not about creation or duplication of anything at all, the core issue is the purpose why its done and what the result is.
Dave Stark
#172 - 2014-01-01 15:23:35 UTC
Inspiration wrote:
It is so easy to fix this issue, spawn many more smaller fields and make the big ones a little smaller. Also do not restrict them to specific systems. Makes it less attractive for a large group or a concentrated single player multi-boxing.


actually it makes it more attractive. the faster you wipe out a site the sooner you start it respawning; the more you can harvest from it in a given period.
celebro
Ember Inc.
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
#173 - 2014-01-01 15:24:08 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:

Basically it allows you to drag a horde of bots running together with you imitating your actions, which is a very very efficient approach for many activities in eve which wouldnt be possible without use of that software.
.



How efficient is Isbox in relation to the number of subbed accounts? Guess what ,its the same for everyone, its not any more efficient.
AFK Hauler
State War Academy
#174 - 2014-01-01 15:26:51 UTC
You are viewing the game from the perspective of the player to make your argument. That is not correct as far a CCP is concerned (IMHO).

From CCPs perspective, 50 paid clients input one command each. Each command was received and processed equally. There were no automated commands received because a single person input the command for a single account. Each account is it's own individual persona and has its own EULA agreement.

The EULA is breached if multiple accounts or a single account receives an automated (independent of a human) command to execute a task.

Multiboxing is not a problem because it's just like every other "imaginary" problem in EVE... you can do it too. You just don't want to because your, what?
Inspiration
#175 - 2014-01-01 15:27:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Inspiration
Dave Stark wrote:
Inspiration wrote:
It is so easy to fix this issue, spawn many more smaller fields and make the big ones a little smaller. Also do not restrict them to specific systems. Makes it less attractive for a large group or a concentrated single player multi-boxing.


actually it makes it more attractive. the faster you wipe out a site the sooner you start it respawning; the more you can harvest from it in a given period.


That's all fine, but if they are in unknown systems all over eve, the idle time off moving the mining fleet and more compklex logistics chain will reduce the effectiveness of scaling up the the level of 50 accounts (a number which i highly doubt anyway)

I am serious!

Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#176 - 2014-01-01 15:27:52 UTC
celebro wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:

Basically it allows you to drag a horde of bots running together with you imitating your actions, which is a very very efficient approach for many activities in eve which wouldnt be possible without use of that software.
.



How efficient is Isbox in relation to the number of subbed accounts? Guess what ,its the same for everyone, its not any more efficient.


number of accounts is not the issue, the issue is how this number of clients is controlled by the user.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#177 - 2014-01-01 15:30:56 UTC
AFK Hauler wrote:
automated (independent of a human)


here is your problem, you dont understand what automation is and think its some kind of AI or some sh*t - its not.
Dave Stark
#178 - 2014-01-01 15:31:25 UTC
Inspiration wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Inspiration wrote:
It is so easy to fix this issue, spawn many more smaller fields and make the big ones a little smaller. Also do not restrict them to specific systems. Makes it less attractive for a large group or a concentrated single player multi-boxing.


actually it makes it more attractive. the faster you wipe out a site the sooner you start it respawning; the more you can harvest from it in a given period.


That's all fine, but if they are in unknown systems all over eve, the idle time off moving the mining fleet and more compklex logistics chain will reduce the effectiveness of scaling up the the level of 50 accounts (a number which i highly doubt anyway)


if they are in unknown systems all over eve it makes no difference if you're multiboxing or not, it's a giant pain in the ass for everyone and nothing has been addressed other than "mining ice is now more of a pain in the ass for everyone"

moving a whole fleet takes the same time as moving 1 ship.
Dave Stark
#179 - 2014-01-01 15:32:17 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
AFK Hauler wrote:
automated (independent of a human)


here is your problem, you dont understand what automation is and think its some kind of AI or some sh*t - its not.

no, he understands it perfectly; if there's no human input and independent of a human it's an automated process.
Magna Mortem
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#180 - 2014-01-01 15:34:03 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Magna Mortem wrote:
You need to understand that your logic is sound, but built on the wrong assumptions. You lack basic understanding of how to analyse a problem properly.


which you are of course capable of, right?
Then explain why people who drag a horde of copycat bots with them using said 3rd party tools are not automating anything?

Magna Mortem wrote:
Use google and learn what the difference between duplication and creation of information is, which has nothing to do with software at all.


its not about creation or duplication of anything at all, the core issue is the purpose why its done and what the result is.

Automation requires no continuous input. Automation requires only initial input, like a program, an algorithm or simply pressing the START button. Multiboxing requires continous input, which gets duplicated. Without this continuous input, multiboxing doesn't work.