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Bastion + Missions = Timebomb

Author
Nuetral Alt
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-01-01 04:15:24 UTC
the TL/DR This guy is pissed because he DC'd in a site while he was in Bastien mode and is upset that him DCing didn't save his ship. He wants CCP to fix this so when a carrier or super per say gets tackled all they do is disappear in space like they used to vs aggro timers and what not...

So...let me ask you...Where did the rats touch you after you dc'd?
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-01-01 04:39:07 UTC  |  Edited by: IIshira
Glyphe Temare wrote:
Well, no. As it would have many more obvious advantages, less petitions for one.

As for looking for another ISP, well, I'm stuck here. And it's not like everybody's got first class connections, so I don't think anyone should be penalized for having no other choices when a simple enough fix with no side-effects can be applied. Arguing otherwise is either elite mentality, "not my case so don't care and STFU" or something along those lines. This social darwinism bullshit is so outdated and busted it ain't even funny.

Nvm, I rest my case, CCP'll decide.

Glyphe out.


A bit of anger here. Asking CCP to change the game because something on your end is broken isn't a reasonable expectation. You do have a choice if you're on a poor internet connection although it might not be the one you want.

I'm sorry but I've been deployed in RL to some desert halfway around the world and I was LUCKY to have internet. It was so bad that when I would attempt to PVP I would be podded by the time I realized I was being attacked. Any PVE setups had to be cap stable.

Did I cry on the forums about how it was so unfair?... No! If you're stuck in some third world country and can't get decent internet I might feel a bit sorry for you because you have to change your play style but if it's because you can't get your mom to upgrade then well suck it up. I'm sorry if you think that's "social darwinism"
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-01-01 04:48:01 UTC
Nuetral Alt wrote:

So...let me ask you...Where did the rats touch you after you dc'd?


This is where model ships are very important. It's a lot less traumatizing to point out the bad place than to talk about it. Sansha have done some unspeakable acts to me. They took a part of me that I'll never get back. Cry
Victoria Thorne
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-01-01 04:53:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Victoria Thorne
I have a bit of sympathy for this issue. I have an extremely good internet connection, but every few months I'll get a rash of socket errors.

It's only EVE. I keep my connection to the internet, and haven't had a problem with anything else, ever. I don't consider it a major issue, but I'd think twice before using a Bastion module.

I have heard that setting up a VPN can stop a lot of those issues. (From reading up on it the first time it happened, it looks like certain areas have this problem more than others.)

Edit - In the interest of full disclosure, I was actually considering getting a Pali, but since I happen to be going through the aforementioned rash of socket errors today, I'll probably give it a miss. Big smile
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-01-01 06:44:41 UTC
Victoria Thorne wrote:
I have a bit of sympathy for this issue. I have an extremely good internet connection, but every few months I'll get a rash of socket errors.

It's only EVE. I keep my connection to the internet, and haven't had a problem with anything else, ever. I don't consider it a major issue, but I'd think twice before using a Bastion module.

I have heard that setting up a VPN can stop a lot of those issues. (From reading up on it the first time it happened, it looks like certain areas have this problem more than others.)

Edit - In the interest of full disclosure, I was actually considering getting a Pali, but since I happen to be going through the aforementioned rash of socket errors today, I'll probably give it a miss. Big smile


I've gotten a random DC now and then but I was able to get back on within 30 seconds so no danger to my tank

I was on when the server crashed recently flying a CNR in missions. I don't know if it was a complete server crash but everyone in my corp DC'd so it was either the server or the systems nearby. By the time I was able to get back on and warp away I was half into hull. My ship didn't warp off, hardeners and shield booster turned off. I didn't lose the ship but it was close. Of course this was not bastion because it was a CNR.
Zrogh Qerhurcouruo
Doomheim
#26 - 2014-01-01 06:54:49 UTC
Glyphe Temare wrote:
What the subject said, the dated DC/emergency warp mechanics are ill equipped to deal with such issues. And DC still happens way too often, I don't even talk about ISP issues.

There's a simple fix tho, instead of having a speed penalty of -100%, make it -99.99% or something.

Same effect in pvp, since the guy would most likely be pointed anyway AND fixed the DC/emergency warp nonsense since you can still snail crawl to warp speed in the event of a DC, everyone's happy.

I use my Note 2 4G with LTE connection, not a single DC with EVE since I started this game few months ago.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2014-01-01 09:49:49 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Simple solution... If you're on a poor internet connection don't use bastion.

I too sometimes run missions while I'm away from home on a poor internet connection and I use a cap stable CNR. It still does around 900 DPS and has no issues tanking with multiple DC's from a poor internet connection.

If you're main internet connection is so bad you're getting DC'd perhaps you should shop around for another ISP.



Ude, just shut up! Its not the person internet connection. Some people here have disconnection while at work in an ISP company! Fact is the connectivity from the rest to the world to london is NOT the same everywhere!

Even with 2 Gbps connections on a dedicated link You do get disconnectiosn to eve servers a few times per year!


Work is not only your ugly backyard !

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2014-01-01 09:51:00 UTC
Zrogh Qerhurcouruo wrote:
Glyphe Temare wrote:
What the subject said, the dated DC/emergency warp mechanics are ill equipped to deal with such issues. And DC still happens way too often, I don't even talk about ISP issues.

There's a simple fix tho, instead of having a speed penalty of -100%, make it -99.99% or something.

Same effect in pvp, since the guy would most likely be pointed anyway AND fixed the DC/emergency warp nonsense since you can still snail crawl to warp speed in the event of a DC, everyone's happy.

I use my Note 2 4G with LTE connection, not a single DC with EVE since I started this game few months ago.



BEcauser the issue is NOT in the damm computer! THe issue is with connectivity of several countries towards London! If you are not in one of those coutnrie syou will NEVER loose connection even if you are playign on a toaster. IF you live on any of them You will loose connection from time to time, no matetr how awesome you think your ocmputer and connection is.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Akemi star
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2014-01-01 11:06:50 UTC
IIshira wrote:
Glyphe Temare wrote:
Well, no. As it would have many more obvious advantages, less petitions for one.

As for looking for another ISP, well, I'm stuck here. And it's not like everybody's got first class connections, so I don't think anyone should be penalized for having no other choices when a simple enough fix with no side-effects can be applied. Arguing otherwise is either elite mentality, "not my case so don't care and STFU" or something along those lines. This social darwinism bullshit is so outdated and busted it ain't even funny.

Nvm, I rest my case, CCP'll decide.

Glyphe out.


A bit of anger here. Asking CCP to change the game because something on your end is broken isn't a reasonable expectation. You do have a choice if you're on a poor internet connection although it might not be the one you want.

I'm sorry but I've been deployed in RL to some desert halfway around the world and I was LUCKY to have internet. It was so bad that when I would attempt to PVP I would be podded by the time I realized I was being attacked. Any PVE setups had to be cap stable.

Did I cry on the forums about how it was so unfair?... No! If you're stuck in some third world country and can't get decent internet I might feel a bit sorry for you because you have to change your play style but if it's because you can't get your mom to upgrade then well suck it up. I'm sorry if you think that's "social darwinism"


I thought eve was played by smart people. but you are committed to prove its not.
That... or you are trolling Glyphe.
CCP is a company and if fixing this issue will get them more money, they should and they will.
Stop talking on behalf of CCP as if you are a GM or the Ceo of the company. You are just another 14euro per month.
Now that said.
The CCP apologists so far have said.

"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose also applies to DCs Lol"

I don't know anyone who can casually lose 1.5 bill battleships on DCs I m sure they are out there. But i m also sure if they can casually lose 1.5 bill ships they will most likely fly 4.5 billion Battleships.

"Havent DC'd in atleast a year"

Again not everyone lives in wonderland of perfect internet connection. And most of the people playing eve, live on the other side of the fence. So DCs are common. And guess what... they pay the same 14 euro you pay for the game.

"it's simple really, rather than asking CCP to change the mechanics, run a cap-stable tank or don't use Bastion if you experience frequent DCs."

Yea not using the thing that makes Marauders special, or one of the main features of the latest expansion for mission runners, is a poor excuse.

"This guy is pissed because he DC'd in a site while he was in Bastien mode and is upset that him DCing didn't save his ship. He wants CCP to fix this so when a carrier or super per say gets tackled all they do is disappear in space like they used to vs aggro timers and what not..."

PVP is another thing entirely you cant really compare it with mission running. To stupid to actually answer...
A mission Runner is Fighting like 80% of the time and his ship can blow up in a minute if left unattended.
In pvp you are in danger like 5% of the time. And i don't think supercarriers and carriers can die by the time you log back.
If they do. You were already dead to begin with.
How can you compare random PVP disconnects with pve..

And for those that think that people use Simulated Disconnect to save their ship. Pulling the modem plug and such..
The last ship i lost in a level 4 mission was back in 2008 i started eve around that time. Only a few missions have warp scramble, and you can kill those ships at the start of the fight.
I don't think people Fly around in marauders that have no clue on how to do L4 missions.

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#30 - 2014-01-01 11:23:00 UTC
Even though that whole mechanic is annoying, what should they do that isn't interfering with pvp? Your ship disappearing from space against timers obviously is inacceptable.

I'm mostly pvp'ing, and I got serious issues with DCs, kiting in a Talos -- screen freezes.
Taking a 60AU warp to seperate a gang -- land on grid, client stuck nothing happens, log back in to jita and so on. It is happening, there is no doubt. Given that Eve crashes on a regular basis while I'm still bantering in TS, would say it's slightly angering.

So if you find yourself in the same situation and want to use a marauder, just use a small/med SB for L4s or something similiar, they keep on tanking for you until you made it back. You don't even need cap stability, you just need 3-4 minutes.

Strongly advertising player-side workarounds instead of complaints.
Akemi star
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2014-01-01 17:15:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Akemi star
Change it so the module keeps on working after a DC
Or change the speed penalty to 99.99% for the bastion module only.
Or made scramblers work on the Bastion normally and have the ship warp away on DC as all other ships.
If you have bastion and you get scrambled. you aren't leaving.... immune or not.
Possibly if you aren't engaged in pvp you emergency warp. Regardless of bastion.
Alternatively you can come off with an answer yourself. After all.. you are getting paid to do this. i m not. i m here to play the game.
Vivian Marcos
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2014-01-01 17:23:39 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Sid Crash wrote:
There's nothing to fix because it's not EVE or CCP being the problem, it's you/your connection. Might as well "fix" siege mode then because ppl might disconnect and all that. Also using ASB in pve is dumb as hell, even more so if you're known to have a terrible connection. Stop being a special snowflake, stop stealing internet from your neighbours and stop trying to make your specific problem some one else's.


Solution is simple; Don't have Bastion on auto repeat and stop using silly ASB. Even better would be to get a proper internet connection.



And what about what happened TODAY? When aboudn 20 THOUSAND players lsot connection during the DDOS?



THat is COMMON in eve ( like 3-4 time sper year).. stop beign arrogant. THere is an issue.

And it shoudl be extended to other modules, as soon as bastion or siege ends the ship should try again to e-warp.



If you lost a ship to the DDOS strikes then you can just petition and get it back....... If you lose a ship to a disconnect of your own doing (aka poor internet) then it falls under the cant help you there. The OP mentioned pvp, I once killed a nightmare because he DCed right before we tackled him and then we probed him down and killed him. CCP should do nothing to help him out, its all part of the game.

Hey sky, get back to work! U 2 cips....

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2014-01-01 17:51:08 UTC
Vivian Marcos wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Sid Crash wrote:
There's nothing to fix because it's not EVE or CCP being the problem, it's you/your connection. Might as well "fix" siege mode then because ppl might disconnect and all that. Also using ASB in pve is dumb as hell, even more so if you're known to have a terrible connection. Stop being a special snowflake, stop stealing internet from your neighbours and stop trying to make your specific problem some one else's.


Solution is simple; Don't have Bastion on auto repeat and stop using silly ASB. Even better would be to get a proper internet connection.



And what about what happened TODAY? When aboudn 20 THOUSAND players lsot connection during the DDOS?



THat is COMMON in eve ( like 3-4 time sper year).. stop beign arrogant. THere is an issue.

And it shoudl be extended to other modules, as soon as bastion or siege ends the ship should try again to e-warp.



If you lost a ship to the DDOS strikes then you can just petition and get it back....... If you lose a ship to a disconnect of your own doing (aka poor internet) then it falls under the cant help you there. The OP mentioned pvp, I once killed a nightmare because he DCed right before we tackled him and then we probed him down and killed him. CCP should do nothing to help him out, its all part of the game.


When I loose conneciton to game, while can reach and use any other place in internet but eve keeps rejecting ANYONE from south america as they periodically do .. how in hell is that MY fault? BTw, last DDOS attack CCP did not return the ship that I lost with my alt, basically the support resposne was suck it. SO NO you cannot petition it


And that is NOT a part of the game. PVP is, the bastion mode side effect of zeroing your speed is an error.

Without a bastion mode you would survive, with a bastion mode you will not that is th eproblem. No one is asking for any miraculous savior, peope lare askign the system to continue working as it was.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2014-01-01 17:52:10 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Even though that whole mechanic is annoying, what should they do that isn't interfering with pvp? Your ship disappearing from space against timers obviously is inacceptable.

I'm mostly pvp'ing, and I got serious issues with DCs, kiting in a Talos -- screen freezes.
Taking a 60AU warp to seperate a gang -- land on grid, client stuck nothing happens, log back in to jita and so on. It is happening, there is no doubt. Given that Eve crashes on a regular basis while I'm still bantering in TS, would say it's slightly angering.

So if you find yourself in the same situation and want to use a marauder, just use a small/med SB for L4s or something similiar, they keep on tanking for you until you made it back. You don't even need cap stability, you just need 3-4 minutes.

Strongly advertising player-side workarounds instead of complaints.


No one asks that. Peopel want that as soo nas bastion mode shutoff, the ship try a secodn time to e warp. If you are tackled.. then you are tackled and dies like you would without bastion, but if you are not tackled you fly away.. as you would without bastion.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2014-01-01 17:53:31 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Even though that whole mechanic is annoying, what should they do that isn't interfering with pvp? Your ship disappearing from space against timers obviously is inacceptable.

I'm mostly pvp'ing, and I got serious issues with DCs, kiting in a Talos -- screen freezes.
Taking a 60AU warp to seperate a gang -- land on grid, client stuck nothing happens, log back in to jita and so on. It is happening, there is no doubt. Given that Eve crashes on a regular basis while I'm still bantering in TS, would say it's slightly angering.

So if you find yourself in the same situation and want to use a marauder, just use a small/med SB for L4s or something similiar, they keep on tanking for you until you made it back. You don't even need cap stability, you just need 3-4 minutes.

Strongly advertising player-side workarounds instead of complaints.



When Tranquility stop acceptign conenctions from south america it usually does for long periods.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"

IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#36 - 2014-01-02 00:33:44 UTC
Akemi star wrote:

I thought eve was played by smart people. but you are committed to prove its not.
That... or you are trolling Glyphe.
CCP is a company and if fixing this issue will get them more money, they should and they will.
Stop talking on behalf of CCP as if you are a GM or the Ceo of the company. You are just another 14euro per month.


Cute you troll me trying to take a shot at my intelligence at the same time say I might be trolling someone else. Calm down with the trolling. It doesn't help the post content and only encourages more trolling on both sides.

Also no where in my post did I say I was talking on behalf of CCP.

Akemi star wrote:

The CCP apologists so far have said.

"Don't fly what you can't afford to lose also applies to DCs Lol"

I don't know anyone who can casually lose 1.5 bill battleships on DCs I m sure they are out there. But i m also sure if they can casually lose 1.5 bill ships they will most likely fly 4.5 billion Battleships.


If you're "casually" getting DC's where you can't get back on maybe Bastion isn't a good idea. I have gotten DC's but they are where I am able to log right back on so no issues. If you know your internet is that bad and still made the choice to use such a ship and module then I don't see why you could complain about the loss.


Akemi star wrote:

"Havent DC'd in atleast a year"

Again not everyone lives in wonderland of perfect internet connection. And most of the people playing eve, live on the other side of the fence. So DCs are common. And guess what... they pay the same 14 euro you pay for the game.


I think the point was of many posters saying they did not have DC's was to show the problem was not on CCP's end but the users. From the OP saying "And DC still happens way too often, I don't even talk about ISP issues" made it sound like the problem was with CCP's servers.
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2014-01-02 06:47:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
Disconnecting is very frequently your own fault. People are often desperate to avoid being accountable for anything so this is another problem commonly projected onto anything else you can find to blame it on.

As several people have already said I haven't disconnected in years barring power failures/extremely rare server crashes. This stems from the fact that PC gaming is my hobby and thus I don't cheap out on my hardware and get and ISP connection better than that of your average peasant. I also spend a good deal of time ensuring my set up is done correctly and replace any parts that are not working correctly. Since disconnecting is a problem that is almost 100% fixable on your end why are you asking the rest of us to accommodate your poor connection?

I've seen this in other online games as well, people assume it is the fault of the server they are playing on rather than admitting it may be their own set up causing the issues and I say the same thing to them: If YOU are disconnecting frequently and the rest of us have no issues staying connected all day short of lightning striking our houses then it has nothing to do with the server, it's either your ISP or YOU that is the problem. An ISP that frequently drops the service of its customers will probably not stay in business for very long and therefore the most likely explanation is that it is something about your set up that causes you to disconnect.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.

chaosgrimm
Synth Tech
#38 - 2014-01-02 15:30:33 UTC  |  Edited by: chaosgrimm
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
Disconnecting is very frequently your own fault. People are often desperate to avoid being accountable for anything so this is another problem commonly projected onto anything else you can find to blame it on.

As several people have already said I haven't disconnected in years barring power failures/extremely rare server crashes. This stems from the fact that PC gaming is my hobby and thus I don't cheap out on my hardware and get and ISP connection better than that of your average peasant. I also spend a good deal of time ensuring my set up is done correctly and replace any parts that are not working correctly. Since disconnecting is a problem that is almost 100% fixable on your end why are you asking the rest of us to accommodate your poor connection?

I've seen this in other online games as well, people assume it is the fault of the server they are playing on rather than admitting it may be their own set up causing the issues and I say the same thing to them: If YOU are disconnecting frequently and the rest of us have no issues staying connected all day short of lightning striking our houses then it has nothing to do with the server, it's either your ISP or YOU that is the problem. An ISP that frequently drops the service of its customers will probably not stay in business for very long and therefore the most likely explanation is that it is something about your set up that causes you to disconnect.


I think that ur post is off-base. While you are content to argue it's the player or isp's fault, it is reasonable to assume that a company supporting an online gaming offer some sort of mitigation to the effects of a dc, esp when when the effects of a DC can yield large penalties. As such, and granted I just skimmed the thread, I didnt see any post about ppl complaining about the warpout on DC feature that currently exists for other ships.

The OP is simply requesting that a similar procedure enjoyed by nearly every hull in the game to help eliminate potential losses due to out of game events, be extended to safeguard these hulls as well.

Essentially, a drawback of using bastion or similar mod is no protection from DCs. IMO, if a game offers some form of DC protection, it should apply to every item, or not exist at all. An advantage of x item over y item shouldn't directly relate to protection from out of game events.
Tiger Armani
End-Game
#39 - 2014-01-02 15:57:13 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
Tell that to Australia


move to civilized country with proper internet :)
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#40 - 2014-01-02 16:17:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Batelle
wow, if you have DC issues, fit something that can perma-tank. Or better yet, can at least tank for 2 minutes while you reconnect. There are plenty of excellent mission battleships. I think its a bit silly that people want to fit paper-thin tanks for maximum isk/hr and then want to be protected when their connections drop. There are plenty of ships with enough hp or tanks that can run long enough to keep you alive for a long time, even if you're tackled when you DC. You can also fit your marauder to tank for a long time with bastion active, and have the bastion auto-repeat until the dps is lower, that way you'll still be tanking away when you come back.

Allowing bastioned ships to warp is a dumb idea that defeats the purpose of the module.

Would it be great if the e-warp was saved until bastion ended? sure. Is this required to safely use a marauder? lolno.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

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