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New dev blog: Starbase tweaks: an update

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Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#21 - 2011-11-23 13:51:15 UTC
Great work CCP.
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#22 - 2011-11-23 13:54:09 UTC
Will the sov reduction still work with the new smaller blocks?

How to win EVE
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#23 - 2011-11-23 14:01:34 UTC
Caghji wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Caghji wrote:
CCP Guard wrote:
CCP Greyscale has been reading your feedback on his recent starbase management blog, and brings you news of changes based on that feedback. Check it out here, and please leave your feedback and thoughts as always.

P.s. Oh, and it's now 6 days until Crucible!



What is the m3 of each fuel block please?



It... uh...

LOOK! A THING! OVER THERE

Ok check the blog again it totally lists the size there too.



blog says
Quote:
Blocks will be 50m3 each.
- is this right?

so for one large tower 50*40*24*7= 33600m3 of fuel for one week

Would really love these blocks to be smaller otherwise there is no real change to the time for us haulers


OMG... Read the blog

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#24 - 2011-11-23 14:11:42 UTC
Note: They're only giving us 2 weeks to load the towers up with new fuel blocks. So by Dec 13th, you will need to have prepared at least a few day's worth of new fuel pellets (or buy off the market).

I suggest doing a few days of ME research on your fuel BPOs starting on Nov 28th, producing a week's worth of fuel pellets, then go back to ME research for another few days. Make another week's worth of fuel pellets, then go back and finish out a few more days of ME/PE research on the BPO.

By Dec 11th-12th - you will want to have loaded at least 5-7 days worth of fuel pellets into all of your towers, but leave the rest of the fuel bay filled with the old-style fuel types. This is the so-called half-n-half approach. After the switchover happens (supposedly on Dec 13th), go out to your towers, remove the old-style fuel types, fill the tower up with the new fuel pellets.
Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#25 - 2011-11-23 14:20:51 UTC
The original blog said the block BPOS were going to be in Thukker Mix stations. Does that include their highsec/lowsec stations, or will it only be in 0.0 stations?

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Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#26 - 2011-11-23 14:22:02 UTC
Just to reiterate on what I said in earlier blogs; in principle I support this change and am glad you're making the sums easier for POS operators (although there is an extra step now with fuel block production).

Please consider iterating/overhauling POS VERY SOON though, especially by breaking up their functions into other structures, with differing fuel requirements. POS should not be the swiss army knife structure they currently are, IMHO and I'd like to see you have a range of structure with differing attributes for the differing functions (such as moon mining, reacting, T3 production, Labs, Capital production etc etc etc).

Cheers.
Brunaburh
Ever Vigilant Fountain Defenders
#27 - 2011-11-23 14:28:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Brunaburh
Although I am glad you listened to the concerns about block size and faction towers, there still remains one significant issue, which is the fuel consumption.

Riptard Teg covered it in a blog post, if you aren't running a full grid/full cpu tower (as in probably 90% of towers out there) there are significant changes to cost since you aren't allowing for fuel variance in the ice products.

I want to say this again, I love the idea of fuel blocks.

I don't love the idea that fuel isn't variable based on CPU/Grid usage.

I mean really, you think after all these years it would be so hard to make a fuel block of all the static fuels and just have to measure Ozone and Heavy Water?

Fuel blocks should combine the PI materials and the Isotopes (all static measured fuels today), and then the ozone and heavy water should be variable (as it is today) based on usage.

It's not that complicated. It's also not 75-IQ stupid, which means it requires thought and planning, things that EVE is known for (in a good way).

Fuel blocks would still be racial due to the isotope inclusion.

Please?

EDIT WTF? I can't link the damn url. BBCODE failure??
TorTorden
Tors shibari party
#28 - 2011-11-23 14:30:01 UTC  |  Edited by: TorTorden
1
And 50*40*24*7= 336000 not 33600 so if that was true this thread would already be at page 10..

2
Actualy I dont see why we would need to have these pellets recycleable, if they where unrecyclable compression becomes a non issue and you could have made them 0.5 m3 (change tower capacity accordingly) And made alot of lives easier.

If they require the same stuff market value would remain the same.

RP wise I would think of it like I was taking the energy from the reactions currently running in the tower to pellet manufacturing and put the needed energy into batteries.

I know it wont happen cause someone over at ccp think flying freighters are awesome....

Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Note: They're only giving us 2 weeks to load the towers up with new fuel blocks. So by Dec 13th, you will need to have prepared at least a few day's worth of new fuel pellets (or buy off the market).

I suggest doing a few days of ME research on your fuel BPOs starting on Nov 28th, producing a week's worth of fuel pellets, then go back to ME research for another few days. Make another week's worth of fuel pellets, then go back and finish out a few more days of ME/PE research on the BPO.

By Dec 11th-12th - you will want to have loaded at least 5-7 days worth of fuel pellets into all of your towers, but leave the rest of the fuel bay filled with the old-style fuel types. This is the so-called half-n-half approach. After the switchover happens (supposedly on Dec 13th), go out to your towers, remove the old-style fuel types, fill the tower up with the new fuel pellets.


I doubt these prints would be expensive so we will just buy two sets, send one off for me research the other will start production immediatly.
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#29 - 2011-11-23 14:30:24 UTC
Any chance we can get the BPOs seeded on Sisi?

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644
SuperSpy00bob
North Eastern Swat
#30 - 2011-11-23 14:31:43 UTC
Mashie Saldana wrote:
Will the sov reduction still work with the new smaller blocks?


Not emptyquoting.
Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2011-11-23 14:31:51 UTC
TorTorden wrote:

...I know it wont happen cause someone over at ccp think flying freighters are awesome....


unfortunatly, I think you are right on this one... :-(
That kind of Logistic is just a PITA.

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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#32 - 2011-11-23 14:39:59 UTC
Jack Dant wrote:
Any chance we can get the BPOs seeded on Sisi?


Check Thukker Mix stations.
Paul Clancy
Korpu no Byakko
#33 - 2011-11-23 14:40:42 UTC
what about Sovereignty bonus?
Knug LiDi
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#34 - 2011-11-23 14:41:21 UTC
Brunaburh wrote:
Although I am glad you listened to the concerns about block size and faction towers, there still remains one significant issue, which is the fuel consumption.

Riptard Teg covered it in a blog post, if you aren't running a full grid/full cpu tower (as in probably 90% of towers out there) there are significant changes to cost since you aren't allowing for fuel variance in the ice products.

I want to say this again, I love the idea of fuel blocks.

I don't love the idea that fuel isn't variable based on CPU/Grid usage.

I mean really, you think after all these years it would be so hard to make a fuel block of all the static fuels and just have to measure Ozone and Heavy Water?

Fuel blocks should combine the PI materials and the Isotopes (all static measured fuels today), and then the ozone and heavy water should be variable (as it is today) based on usage.

It's not that complicated. It's also not 75-IQ stupid, which means it requires thought and planning, things that EVE is known for (in a good way).

Fuel blocks would still be racial due to the isotope inclusion.

Please?

EDIT WTF? I can't link the damn url. BBCODE failure??


This. Please. Those of us that conserve fuel (and effort) now have no reason not to switch off the toys when we go to bed. Folks that ran their towers at full CPU/PG throttle won't see a change, but those of us that ran EFFICIENT POS operations are left simply to pay for more fuel. The "complexity" that some folks are seeking to remove allowed us to operate at a higher level.

The changes to the cost to produce reactions at POSs are very sensitive to operating costs, as our percentages are slim. I speak as someone who doesn't get the moon goo for free.

If only we could fall into a woman's arms

without falling into her hands
happy Gun
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2011-11-23 14:59:59 UTC
Do you currently plan to remove the sovereignty penalty on the fuel consume?
Sahara Wildcat
Wild Amazons EVE
#36 - 2011-11-23 15:01:38 UTC
I would like to have the stations conservatory with tropical vegetation, something like a mini jungle.

Sahara Wildcat
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#37 - 2011-11-23 15:05:19 UTC
Knug LiDi wrote:

The changes to the cost to produce reactions at POSs are very sensitive to operating costs, as our percentages are slim. I speak as someone who doesn't get the moon goo for free.


(Rehash of what I wrote up earlier in another thread.)

Approx prices per month using today's fuel consumption rates of the old-style fuels (and assuming full CPU/PG):

Amarr: 139 / 219 / 379
Caldari: 142 / 225 / 392
Gallente: 228 / 396 / 734
Minmatar: 144 / 228 / 397

How much of that is from HW/LOz? For the 3 tower sizes, using today's prices (HW 155, LOz 419), the HW/LOz costs are (in millions of ISK):

HW: 4.2 / 8.4 / 16.8 (CPU-driven)
LOz: 11.5 / 22.6 / 45.3 (PG-driven)

Approx prices per month using the new fuel pellets with today's prices:

Amarr: 90 / 178 / 355
Caldari: 93 / 184 / 366
Gallente: 169 / 336 / 671
Minmatar: 94 / 186 / 371

The only towers at a risk of costing slightly more are large towers. The cost savings on small/medium towers far outstrip the amount of ISK added back to the 30-day fuel costs by increased HW/LOz needs.

For the Amarr Large Tower, they would have saved 24M per 30 days under the new fuel pellet ingredient list. If you were not using all of your CPU before this, you would still save about 8M/mo. If you were not using all of your PG, then you'll end up paying about 21M more per 30d.
Azurun Li
Number One Lucky Golden Dragon Buffet
#38 - 2011-11-23 15:08:31 UTC
I love fuel pellets.

I'm happy with the changes that have been made to accomodate faction towers.

I like the extra level of complexity that producing pellets will add to the game.

I'm okay with losing the complexity of maintaining fuel efficiency. Although, to be fair, I never felt the benefits of running a fuel efficient tower outweighed the benfits of filling a tower to capacity. My towers have allways been packed to the gills with everything I can stuff in them.

However...

I'm concerned about the lack of response to the question about Sov bonuses. Will there or won't there be a Sov discount for fuel? If so, how much will the discount be?

I can adapt one way or another, but it would be really nice to be able to plan for changes to our fuel costs.

I know that CCP has been really good at answering questions that are important to the community lately, so I'm going to say thank you in advance.

Thanks, CCP.
Raid'En
#39 - 2011-11-23 15:11:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Raid'En
Two step wrote:
The original blog said the block BPOS were going to be in Thukker Mix stations. Does that include their highsec/lowsec stations, or will it only be in 0.0 stations?

i think it include the high sec one, or they will get hundreds of offline towers, and thousand of angry players :P

but i'm pretty disappointed by this blog ; it only says what was already said on forum long ago, and available on sisi since a while.

was hoping for a real news ; like some change on quantity of ozone, or an upgrade on how the transition period will works.

Scrapyard Bob wrote:

The only towers at a risk of costing slightly more are large towers. The cost savings on small/medium towers far outstrip the amount of ISK added back to the 30-day fuel costs by increased HW/LOz needs. .

i think the biggest problem here is not the price, but the volume ; it will be a big change for people doing the hauling on nullsec, as ozone and water are close to 50% of the total volume of product needed currently.
so for tower having very few modules onlined, this change will almost double the volume needed to haul the fuel.
well in fact it would be more like 40-60% more, given blocks are a bit smaller than fuel items, but that's still a big change

@next post : yeah we can see the numbers by uncheking the "show only available items", but the BPOs were never seeded on sisi... but well with the numbers we have what's needed.
Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#40 - 2011-11-23 15:14:00 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Jack Dant wrote:
Any chance we can get the BPOs seeded on Sisi?

Check Thukker Mix stations.

Nope. Not in highsec, lowsec, or great wildlands.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644