Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Outdated how? Missiles have continuously been nerfed over the last year plus, while turrets have been buffed. Seriously WTF are you talking about?

thx for that info it really helps to decide ^^

A short memory is the greatest weapon the elite have over the proliteriat masses. Take an inch, take a mile.

Snappy comebacks are totally acceptable for this particular thread… I think it really depends on the scenario, but I'm finding that creative "out-of-the-box" solutions are the best course of action.


To be sure. At the end of the day the best alternative to RLMLs is probably T2 HAMLs running Javelin ammunition with a hydraulic rig or two thrown-in for good measure. The increased damage should offset the reduced damage application - particularly if a target painter or rigors are utilized. If we thought the RLML got brutalized - just wait until the tears start flowing when they nerf drone assist…


19 with Faction launchers, but I digress… RLMLs are now really a "fire and forget" weapon. They will pretty much nail everything within firing range for upwards of 50% damage application. These are no longer a primary or even secondary weapon system, and they are absolutely useless for PvE (any form). I think they may excel (and this is a very, very niche role) at quickly dispatching small targets or applying maximum DPS as part of small gangs. This obviously precludes or really limits use in solo play, which I think is the biggest sticking point.

The statement is outdated as with the recent massive buff to torpedoes and HAMs/rockets (application of guided missile precision) a good deal of application issues got fixed. Now with the LR med. turret buff, these turret variants have become viable for the first time, they yet do not surpass heavies in some cases (artillery outside of a fleet-scenario).

I said that I only started using them recently, so I obviously missed out on usage of formerly broken heavies, but I had the pleasure to toy around with rapids/HAMs and torps. As I'm normally using them in scenarios requiring every bit of dps (sologanking nullratters, tackling people around wormholes - the place where sub 60k tanks and weak half-assed active tanks don't exist) in a tandem of sleipnir+tengu, I'm pretty sure I can draw clean comparisons regarding turret/missile-damage application to potential damage. That quotient (sorry, don't know the correct english term off the bat) appears to be quite favorable for missiles, as especially slightly out-of-scramrange-kiting works like a charm due to them applying their damage regardless of the distance between attacker and victim - within the max-range limits.

The argument that missiles got successively nerfed over the recent years is void. Without doubt. Heavies got nerhammered after reigning over fleet-pvp for a long time (mostly due to obscene cost-efficiency rather than being untouchable - well, slightly untouchable with former resistboni on the drakehull), and tbh a Drake applying 450dps homogeniously over 80km was just OP without limits.

Besides that, GMP for all, Cruises got lifted from oblivion into the pvp-scene (typhoons FTW) with FOTM-ambitions, HAMs got their raw damage increased by 25% at some point (and ratting tengus went from 790 to 1010dps using regular 5% hardwirings.

Tl;dr: Missiles are all but inferior to turrets. They tend to have application issues which are totally equalized by the use of appropriate tackle (2 webs, 1-2 bonused paints). Remaining is high, sometimes even freely selectable damage (like claymore, vengeance, raven, typhoon, interceptorgu).



Unlike earlier, their damage is frontloaded - with obvious situational advantages and disadvantages. The long reload and limited, though near flawlessly applied damage pushes it into the niche of a support-vessel. For example, try your old Caracal - but instead of running it solo in FW / nullbaby-staging, just try it as a supportvessel for a group of ships skirmishing another, slower fleet reliant on fast moving warp-ins. I'm not entirely sure what my dps is for the short terms I need to cycle launchers anyways, it just seems to excel in that particular role better than ever.

It just lost the 29 other applications avaiable before, like the 400dps rapid light 100mn-gu with large SB.

Regards

http://eve-kill.net/?a=top20

Outside of frig class missiles (Arbalest Torpedo Launcher is obviously on there due to Stealth Bombers), guess how many missile systems are in the top 20 in kills.

Zero.

So please just stop with this nonsense.

Yeah, cause the top 20 on eve-kill have any relation to performance

*missiles got nerfed* - *no they didn't cause* - *but they aren't in the top20 !!11!1* is not a valid argument. If you want to attack my arguments, don't do it by citing meaningless stats. Do it with counterarguments. Going by flavor of the current blobmeta doesn't prove anything but meta4 torps being obviohsly superior to t2. I guess you understand. Well, I hope so...

Else, you just appear like a blind like the guy wondering why his hams don't hurt an untackled inty. The situation would've been identical using guns. You can solo a loki in a rockethawk or enyo if you make it closer than a 2k orbit...

If you're flying HAM always take a web. A painter isn't much good but a web will do wonders.

Also don't use rage HAM against frigates.. 300+ sig radius against them?

Except the cons now seriously outweigh the pros. The problem with losing the other 29 applications is that we really haven't gained any new ones.


Webs are good, but that kind of defeats the whole range advantage with most missile systems. Rigors and dual target painters are probably more effective.

What we really need is a Ballistic Enhancer to improve explosion radius, explosion velocity and missile velocity (although arguably that still won't help RLMLs).

Rapid Light Missile Launchers
If the 40-second reload will remain remain, and the issue of swapping ammo types can't (or won't) be addressed - then the simplest change to balance this weapon system is to increase the ammunition capacity. A quick comparison of light-medium T2 launchers: Rockets (50), Light (53), Rapid Light (18; 80 pre-nerf), Heavy Assault (66), Heavy (40). I think an increase to 30 would solve most if not all of the sticking issues with them.