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FW kills LP mechanic
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Niden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2013-12-30 13:07:14 UTC
I’m a factional warfare pilot and I love it. However, there’s one thing that always puts me off: the ridiculous LP rewards for kills. Essentially shouldn’t this be a good LP source rather than running a plex or running a mission? Wouldn’t that be a much more direct conflict driver? IMO it should at least be a viable option for getting LP, being on par with running plexes and missions.

Moira corp | Villore Accords | Gallente militia |  Lowlife on Crossing Zebras | @Niden_GMVA
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#2 - 2013-12-30 13:30:01 UTC
While LP payouts for killing players are not that great increasing them could bring some problems. If you take into account insurance payments, bounties, salvage and LP conversion ratios - even small increase in LP payout can make killing own alts profitable again.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Niden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2013-12-30 13:40:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Niden
With the current rates I doubt even the double payout would make much of a difference. Exploitation could be avoided by giving premium rewards for killing highly ranked opponents that haven't been killed in 7 days or more and next to nothing (as it is today) for killing some poor newbro that got killed 2 hours ago - making killing your own alts over and over again pretty much a waste of time.

Just as an example: yesterday I was in a small fleet and we killed something in the order of 30 targets over the period of 2 hours. Earlier in the day I ran a novice plex. The novice plex gave me at least 3 times more LP and took 10 minutes to complete.

EDIT: FW pilots log on to kill each other, not sit on a button. It seems to me the wrong a activity is rewarded. This would also address the issue of LP farmers to some extent, motivating conflit itself, not the mechanics around it.

Moira corp | Villore Accords | Gallente militia |  Lowlife on Crossing Zebras | @Niden_GMVA
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#4 - 2013-12-30 13:52:19 UTC
Given how fine the bounty pay out line is, that people almost broke even on the bounty system to clear their bounties with insurance. the LP system is probably similarly fine line.
When you take a T1 Frig/Destroyer/Cruiser with T1 fittings it already has a very high return on insurance compared to total cost.

Perhaps this is an argument for harder plexs instead.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2013-12-30 13:59:02 UTC
Have yet to see an MMO with good rewards for killing players not end up with players getting together to kill farm each other or alts for rewards.

Careful of what you ask for. Taking down another player always needs be a net loss.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Niden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-12-30 14:03:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Niden
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Given how fine the bounty pay out line is, that people almost broke even on the bounty system to clear their bounties with insurance. the LP system is probably similarly fine line.
When you take a T1 Frig/Destroyer/Cruiser with T1 fittings it already has a very high return on insurance compared to total cost.
.


I see your point, but I find it hard to believe that there isn't any room for change below 100% return value for the exploit.

Besides, the time since last loss mechanic that I suggested would mitigate some of the exploatation risk.

Moira corp | Villore Accords | Gallente militia |  Lowlife on Crossing Zebras | @Niden_GMVA
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#7 - 2013-12-30 14:18:10 UTC
Or just encourage more alts. I suspect you probably want to look at harder plexes given the 500 mil/hr income claimed on them sounds somewhat excessive compared to most other incomes. Especially given the level of ship needed.
Niden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2013-12-30 14:33:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Niden
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Or just encourage more alts. I suspect you probably want to look at harder plexes given the 500 mil/hr income claimed on them sounds somewhat excessive compared to most other incomes. Especially given the level of ship needed.


That figure gets inflated every time I hear someone talk about it. The conditions to even make 100 mil/h have to be quite favourable.

There has to be a good way to motivate actual conflict rather than farming, at least to some extent.

Moira corp | Villore Accords | Gallente militia |  Lowlife on Crossing Zebras | @Niden_GMVA
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#9 - 2013-12-30 17:06:44 UTC
TL;DR...

im a newb to the new mechanics but as far as i see it you use that lp toget zones to Tier 5.. and THEN you run missions in those zones for LP and tags

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Motorbit
Moira.
#10 - 2013-12-30 18:56:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Motorbit
afaik, we had higher payouts for kills.
got abused to hell and back by killing alts.
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#11 - 2013-12-30 20:11:47 UTC
When has killing people ever been economically viable? IE: You kill someone to get something, magical money does not come from their corpses.
Motorbit
Moira.
#12 - 2013-12-30 20:30:43 UTC
oh we get payed for wrecks and corpses all right.
its just so little it rather feels like being mocked then being payed.
Niden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2014-01-02 13:46:42 UTC
Motorbit wrote:
oh we get payed for wrecks and corpses all right.
its just so little it rather feels like being mocked then being payed.


Well defined. After a hard fight, where several mates have gone down, all my modules are burned out and the fleet is limping back to dock, it's a bit meh to get 28 LP for a kill. I understand the above mentioned logic, but surely that's a bit TOO low!

Moira corp | Villore Accords | Gallente militia |  Lowlife on Crossing Zebras | @Niden_GMVA
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-01-02 13:59:45 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
While LP payouts for killing players are not that great increasing them could bring some problems. If you take into account insurance payments, bounties, salvage and LP conversion ratios - even small increase in LP payout can make killing own alts profitable again.



They shoudl fix that by making all insurance is invalid if you are in FW. After all you are an official enlisted soldier. No insurance company would accept to insure that.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2014-01-02 14:00:45 UTC
Sean Parisi wrote:
When has killing people ever been economically viable? IE: You kill someone to get something, magical money does not come from their corpses.



In history of mankind there was somethign called PIRACY.. and was not made because was fashinable back then.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Niden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2014-01-02 14:40:26 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
They shoudl fix that by making all insurance is invalid if you are in FW. After all you are an official enlisted soldier. No insurance company would accept to insure that.


How there's an idea! Somone's about to shoot it down, but at first glance it sounds good to me. How about insurance is invalid if you get killed by an opposing FW pilot only?

Moira corp | Villore Accords | Gallente militia |  Lowlife on Crossing Zebras | @Niden_GMVA