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Countering the gank squad?
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Thatt Guy
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2013-12-29 04:01:22 UTC
Let's assume your running sites in a c5, cap escalating when suddenly....
Gank Squad...crap.

Most site runners will have at least a dread, carrier, and loki in site at any time, ofc typically 2 dreads (pve fit) and maybe 2 carriers and loki.

Hostile fleet will consist of 5-10 t3, triage carrier and 2 dreads (pvp fit) usually that can make it 1 hole jump.

What counters it without having more numbers?

Would overwhelming carriers work? say 5-7 slowcat like fits?

Are you just phucked?

Looking for theories and ideas.

Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll.
Kateryna I
Viper-Squad
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2013-12-29 05:00:41 UTC
More reps or more dps, preferably both and a lot more to make it quicker ...

Above usually is achieved by more numbers.

Polish PVP corp looking for members to have some fun together. Join me! Check our KB
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#3 - 2013-12-29 05:15:03 UTC
The only way to get ganked by that is by running sites with a skeleton crew (loki/rapier, 2 carriers, 2 triage)

So if they gank you, simply warp all your dreads and hope thry are armorfit :)
Klarion Sythis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-12-29 05:34:16 UTC
How the dreads are fit is key. Shield PVP dreads warping onto your single rep armor dreads will **** them unless you respond with overwhelming force. Their burst tanks will carry them through and your more stable tanked dreads will die horribly. Theory craft from there.
Thatt Guy
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-12-29 05:48:03 UTC
Klarion Sythis wrote:
How the dreads are fit is key. Shield PVP dreads warping onto your single rep armor dreads will **** them unless you respond with overwhelming force. Their burst tanks will carry them through and your more stable tanked dreads will die horribly. Theory craft from there.


This is what I'd imagine, Nag's being the meta atm.

Anyone have any ideas for a counter tactic?

Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#6 - 2013-12-29 05:57:31 UTC
Thatt Guy wrote:
Klarion Sythis wrote:
How the dreads are fit is key. Shield PVP dreads warping onto your single rep armor dreads will **** them unless you respond with overwhelming force. Their burst tanks will carry them through and your more stable tanked dreads will die horribly. Theory craft from there.


This is what I'd imagine, Nag's being the meta atm.

Anyone have any ideas for a counter tactic?


Moooooaaaar dps. They come to your holr, and no ship os holding against 8+ dreads. So on expo, you'rr skrewed. At home they are.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2013-12-29 10:35:00 UTC
no one brings carrier in to gank people anymore, it isnt 2011 anymore son.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Thatt Guy
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2013-12-29 10:50:49 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
no one brings carrier in to gank people anymore, it isnt 2011 anymore son.



OMG.. Jack Milton posted in my thread........nerdgasm!

ahum...

Anyway to avoid getting ganked? Even assuming you could bring in a few more carriers?

Or are you basically screwed?

Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll.
Winthorp
#9 - 2013-12-29 11:02:51 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Tyrozan
Thatt Guy wrote:
OMG.. Jack Milton posted in my thread........nerdgasm!


People hope for him to post?

Jumping a proper quad escalation fleet can be a knifes edge event, i have been on them that have been very sketchy with enduring losses and taking over an hour to actually break them. Even had to bring in ammo runs.

You also wont get a great deal of groups that will use full mass to go balls deep with the three cap/dreads to wipe your EDIT: Racial references are not allowed - ISD Tyrozan fleet out. Most will bring a sub cap fleet and a dread or cap. You have the attackers that will have to also be aware of how far escalated you are to know what cap/dreads they can bring that will add further escalation waves to the dps on the field that either side can have to rep.
G0hme
Illusion of Flight
#10 - 2013-12-29 11:03:17 UTC
Try looking towards dual rep Revelations. Also if you have a pro scanner, stick him in a Interdictor with warp speed fit/implants. scan down hostiles/WH like your life depended on it, warp bubble, and pray that your cycles havnt just started.

Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012

Shook CCP Soundwave's hand at Fanfest 2013

Got NPC API removed from Wormhole Space.
Thatt Guy
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2013-12-29 11:07:28 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
Thatt Guy wrote:
OMG.. Jack Milton posted in my thread........nerdgasm!


People hope for him to post?

Jumping a proper quad escalation fleet can be a knifes edge event, i have been on them that have been very sketchy with enduring losses and taking over an hour to actually break them. Even had to bring in ammo runs.

You also wont get a great deal of groups that will use full mass to go balls deep with the three cap/dreads to wipe your jew fleet out. Most will bring a sub cap fleet and a dread or cap. You have the attackers that will have to also be aware of how far escalated you are to know what cap/dreads they can bring that will add further escalation waves to the dps on the field that either side can have to rep.


All based off of Jack's quad escalation guide, and looking at kill boards from wormhole corps, this is about the worst you can throw at someone.
Seamed to be the s.o.p. for ganking pve fleets.

Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll.
Winthorp
#12 - 2013-12-29 11:10:32 UTC
To be fair most people don't even crit or bubble their WH's these days while escalating as they really do hope to get jumped.
Thatt Guy
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-12-29 11:29:46 UTC
G0hme wrote:
Try looking towards dual rep Revelations. Also if you have a pro scanner, stick him in a Interdictor with warp speed fit/implants. scan down hostiles/WH like your life depended on it, warp bubble, and pray that your cycles havnt just started.


Looking at the ships:
Dual rep rev, with no dmg mods (tank and cpr only) tanks 17,300 ish, this includes fleet boosts.

2 nags put out up to 25,000 ish dps.
With a minimum of support, 30,000 wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities.

Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll.
Thatt Guy
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-12-29 11:34:20 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
To be fair most people don't even crit or bubble their WH's these days while escalating as they really do hope to get jumped.


Not the system static, anyone smart would solve that problem.
C5/c5 and c6/c5 have a max mass of 3 billion, with a max jump mass of 1,350,000.
Meaning if careful you could get a small support fleet, 2 dreads and a carrier through.

Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll.
Godfrey Silvarna
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#15 - 2013-12-29 11:38:12 UTC
Either keep your dreads close to the carrier to allow refitting to more PvP-friendly fits, or spread your dreads some distance away on opposite sides of the carrier. The former method allows you to tweak the gank/tank-ratio as needed by refitting, but it is weak to getting balled by the subcap fleet and losing your webber, thus making dread blapping closely orbiting subcaps almost impossible. Carrying extra PvP-fit webbers in the carrier helps in making sure your dreads always have some help in hitting things.

The latter method means that if your opponent's subcaps orbit one of the dreads, the other one is likely to be sufficiently far away to have a better chance of blapping their neut ships. With the addition of mobile depots, refitting may still be available.

However, the most important thing to have is discipline. Most site fleets that get ganked do not die to dps or neut. They die to panic.
G0hme
Illusion of Flight
#16 - 2013-12-29 11:39:35 UTC
Thatt Guy wrote:
G0hme wrote:
Try looking towards dual rep Revelations. Also if you have a pro scanner, stick him in a Interdictor with warp speed fit/implants. scan down hostiles/WH like your life depended on it, warp bubble, and pray that your cycles havnt just started.


Looking at the ships:
Dual rep rev, with no dmg mods (tank and cpr only) tanks 17,300 ish, this includes fleet boosts.

2 nags put out up to 25,000 ish dps.
With a minimum of support, 30,000 wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities.



You're fitting it wrong, keep tweaking. Currently I'm looking at a Rev with 34k tank vs Nags and still have two empty lowslot with only using affordable mid tier deadspace mods.

Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012

Shook CCP Soundwave's hand at Fanfest 2013

Got NPC API removed from Wormhole Space.
Thatt Guy
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2013-12-29 11:43:06 UTC
Godfrey Silvarna wrote:
Either keep your dreads close to the carrier to allow refitting to more PvP-friendly fits, or spread your dreads some distance away on opposite sides of the carrier. The former method allows you to tweak the gank/tank-ratio as needed by refitting, but it is weak to getting balled by the subcap fleet and losing your webber, thus making dread blapping closely orbiting subcaps almost impossible. Carrying extra PvP-fit webbers in the carrier helps in making sure your dreads always have some help in hitting things.

The latter method means that if your opponent's subcaps orbit one of the dreads, the other one is likely to be sufficiently far away to have a better chance of blapping their neut ships. With the addition of mobile depots, refitting may still be available.

However, the most important thing to have is discipline. Most site fleets that get ganked do not die to dps or neut. They die to panic.


Good points.

But no dread, even max tank fit dual repped ones (in siege or out), can tank the dps 2 dreads can put out.

What about using a group of carriers (slowcat style) to run sites? With only 5, the tank comes up fast.

Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-12-29 12:55:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
it REALLY depends what you get jumped by.
if you get jumped by low T3 numbers and equal/lower numbers of dreads than you have then it comes down almost entirely to the dread fits which means you will lose if the attackers have PVP fit dreads, even in lower numbers.
on the other hand, if you get jumped by people who know what theyre doing and have 15-20 T3s with good guardian support, then youre pretty much hosed since your webs will get jammed out and your caps will get neuted out and killed.
high numbers of carriers let you tank for a while sure, but they cant kill T3s and will get bumped apart eventually, even if it takes a long time.

that said, that's worst case scenario. reality is a lot of people who try site ganks do it even though they dont really have the fleet/capability to do them, which is fine but gives you a very good chance of fighting them off if theyre in BSs, T1 ships ect.

best advice is to have PVP fits ready in your dreads for refitting.
this means active hards, cap mods and even trimarks preferably. if you get jumped by 2x moros, immediately fitting 2 kin and 2 therm hards will swing the odds well in your favour.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Thatt Guy
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2013-12-29 21:17:17 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
it REALLY depends what you get jumped by.
if you get jumped by low T3 numbers and equal/lower numbers of dreads than you have then it comes down almost entirely to the dread fits which means you will lose if the attackers have PVP fit dreads, even in lower numbers.
on the other hand, if you get jumped by people who know what theyre doing and have 15-20 T3s with good guardian support, then youre pretty much hosed since your webs will get jammed out and your caps will get neuted out and killed.
high numbers of carriers let you tank for a while sure, but they cant kill T3s and will get bumped apart eventually, even if it takes a long time.

that said, that's worst case scenario. reality is a lot of people who try site ganks do it even though they dont really have the fleet/capability to do them, which is fine but gives you a very good chance of fighting them off if theyre in BSs, T1 ships ect.

best advice is to have PVP fits ready in your dreads for refitting.
this means active hards, cap mods and even trimarks preferably. if you get jumped by 2x moros, immediately fitting 2 kin and 2 therm hards will swing the odds well in your favour.


TY Jack.
This is about what I figured, looks like unless you can bring an extra dread or have a better support fleet, your pretty boned, depending on cycle times. As the attackers should be able to kill off 1 dread or your triage for sure with the dps, before you can really respond with back-up.

BTW, TY Jack for your C5 guide, brought me back to the game.

Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll.
Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#20 - 2013-12-29 22:32:38 UTC
Easy. Have dreads.

If you are escalating sites in a c5/c6 with capitals know that you could always get jumped. The only thing you have to worry about then is a subcap blobs after you've hired some more dread pilots.
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