Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So do I, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't enjoy saving 100mm every time I lose a pod.

I think this makes sense. Players shouldn't have to make the trade-off between getting a slight edge during PVP and being able to learn things. It makes sense to have the attribute remap be the only thing that affects training times. Like many other people in this thread, I came into it assuming I'd be raging about the dumb noob. But learning implants are really very similar to the learning skills.

No. Actions have consequence. ALL ACTIONS. To include PvP.

Essentially you are crying to make PvP less risky with less to loose.

How is this different from HS care-bears whining to make their life entirely risk-averse?

I PvvE, PvP (badly), loose stuff at a regular pace, kill things/players on occasion and I have no issue with the current mechanics and consequences of implants and PvP. I don't think the game should be dummied down so that you won't have to worry about what hangar you are forced to hang in or what style of game play you are choosing at the moment.

No thanks.
I can fit and afford +5s pretty easily but I dont fit them. Why? Because I run pirate implants for their benefit at the cost of a +2 training speed.

Bottom line is that learning implants are fine and the fact that jump clones exist make this debate a non issue.

CCP should check this idea out.

I really like this idea, and agree with most points being said, we want to encourage people to undock. From my point of view, this isk isn't the problem the loss of learning is.

I would much prefer to use pirate implants, a lot more expensive than +5s, but pvping in anything less that 4+ doesn't make sense to me, I would be in low grades all the time for pvp if they didn't have such low attribute points.

I even think increasing implant slots by 5 would be a good idea, allow people to mix attribute with pirate.

lets have no more dumbing down. If you use implants to shorten your training queue then you benefit from them. If you wish to retain the benefit and pvp use a jump clone it's as simple as that.

Well there are several issues with your logic here.....

1. Implants of any type are optional, not required. This being the case you do not lose anything whether you have them or not, as you are not forced to have or own them. + The Speed you train at comes at a cost, if you want combat effectiveness, you can't train as fast. If you want to train faster, your combat effectiveness drops.

This is in line with Eve's intentions of Cost Vs Reward, as well as Risk.


2. Despite what you believe, Eve is not and never has been about PvP, in fact PvP mine as well be a side game. The vast majority of Eve's resources are dedicated to Industry and PvE (About 85% - 90%).

PvP in Eve is a "result" of the Socio Economic struggle over the vast resources located in the Eve universe and of course "ISK", it'self. Without which you would not be able to have ammo, let alone ships to shoot anyone with. As 95% of all things in Eve are made by players.

This is something many of the PvP community fail to see. So I am not surprised to see a post like this from a PvPer.

3. Learning implants are for those who are the brains in Eve who choose to further their skill points at the cost of combat effectiveness they have no need for, they build your ships, they control your market, you may laugh and joke and make fun of them, but hey when those BS prices go up in your 0.0 region, now you know why. That indy you just killed may have been the controller of your regional market. Much more you may suddenly find that there is nothing worth buying on your market, yet your enemies market just exploded.

Same principle.

They have no need of PvP ships or weapons, they can destroy your entire Alliance simply by attrition, and economic means.

"True power lies in the hand of he or she who controls economic power, supply, demand, and the market. Give me this and I care not who leads the nation" - Rothschild at the signing of the implementation of the U.S. Federal Reserve.

You seemed to have completely missed the point of the thread. It's not about making PvP less risky (expensive implants would not go away altogether). It's about giving players a better choice than training time vs more active bonuses. It's also about removing an element of the game that actively encourages players to avoid risk and stay docked lest they lose their shiny training implants.

For my part, +1 to the idea.

This is true, the cost of death is the reason I don't PvP as much as I used to, with the Eve Economy inflated (Or deflated) like it is, prices of everything are sky high, I remember when you used to be able to buy a Tier 3 BS for 80 Mil, Now they cost near 300 mil (Which was the cost of a Marauder or pirate BS in the past) Now those cost 1 -2 Billion.

These are just a few examples. Yet the Income from everything has remained the same. Without either a lowering of prices and or an Increase of income garnering mechanics and increase in ISK payout PvP will continue to decline as Prices increase and the ability to keep up a stable income continues to decline.

Such high prices are the reason PvP has gone down in recent times and most people prefer to work things out diplomatically, rather then by a wardec, or war. People are more focused on the Economics of the game then the Pew pew itself. (Which maybe is CCP's goal since Eve IS a Socio Economic Game about Resource Management and Exploration / Exploitation)

If the cost of Death and Losing your ship/clone was cut in half, You would see PvPers triple and quadruple in number.

CCP is fully aware of this, as they have their own team of RL Economist's who plan and manage the Eve Economy. So I would say this decline in PvPers is entirely Intentional.

I think that it would have made sense to remove the learning implants rather than the learning skills - at least when you lose a pod, you don't lose your learning skills - and they gave much more meaning to the whole actions have (long term) consequences