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A reason to form High-Sec Corperations / Alliances.

Author
I am disposable
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-12-26 09:46:03 UTC
You are delusional if you think there aren't plenty of people in this game who get their jollies from griefing new players. I know for a fact there are a good number of people who get their kicks out of awoxing noobs in corps they themselves have set up. Griefers are in every MMO, and even moreso in EVE.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#22 - 2013-12-26 09:51:34 UTC
That's a very compelling argument. I've personally never seen it only heard of it.
Anecdotal evidence everywhere
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#23 - 2013-12-26 09:56:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Seranova Farreach
Viki Katana wrote:
You wont find this in eve. You have to create it. If you can't find a corporation that is goal driven then form your own. Eventually you will meet other players and corporations that think the same way. They form into alliances. And then they all move into null sec.

There are three types of people that play eve. Thinkers, do-ers, and slackers. Anybody with ambition and drive will form/find a corporation and end up in null because that part of eve is attractive to them. Slackers stay in high sec. They are not willing to spend the 'risk' to enjoy the deeper parts of eve. (excluding politics, that gets in the way of a lot of stuff in null)

I've been in a few places, Querious, Providence, Curse, and Branch to name a few. I've fought in Old Man Star. And I've spammed a few thousand missions in high sec. I'm in a corp that is group and goal oriented. But i don't always want to work to a goal. Some days I only have time to solo one or two missions. Groups take time to organize. Rarely have i been in a scheduled roam that left on time. (russians are pretty punctual)

Don't ask the world to move. Move and the world will follow. (I'm sure somebody has said that before, just not sure who.)



P.S. Can i have my cookie?


highsec is where most of the minerals come from and most of the production happens for most of the ships in eve, i doubt highsec is for slackers, if anything its nullsec where they barely have to lift a finger to make the isk some one in highsec does in a week or longer. case and point could be how you can easly sit in a carrier with sentry drones and make 100m+ an hour.


PS. your 3 different people theory is rather wrong, there is more then that but in the end if people make the move to nullsec all it boils down to is Blobs... Blobs and bubbles everywhere.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]

Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#24 - 2013-12-26 10:04:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Caleb Seremshur
I made a long post about dynamic resource allocation and setting a mineral ceiling for the game a fair while ago now. By starving highsec of it's "safe" mineral minjng by necessity a new profession is found. Whether that becomes fighting/missions/ganking/exploring or what isn't nearly as important as the introduction of a more valanced and believable mineral source. Taking hints from the real world is the best way to balance a game that so closely mimics reality

ps life is what you make it. I haven't done the blob fight yet and hope I never *have* to. I much prefer guerilla fighting in the enemy's turf
I am disposable
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2013-12-26 10:17:53 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
That's a very compelling argument. I've personally never seen it only heard of it.
Anecdotal evidence everywhere


It's not anecdotal for me. It was my first experience in EVE.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#26 - 2013-12-26 10:31:36 UTC
It was your first experience? And it made you become a space emo? I'd recommend moving to some new space breathing some freah air
I am disposable
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2013-12-26 11:09:53 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
It was your first experience? And it made you become a space emo? I'd recommend moving to some new space breathing some freah air


Roll

No it made me aware of how much griefing goes on in EVE. It was actually a great learning experience. It also made realize how many people are chased away from this game due to design elements that presently support griefing (wardeccing and awoxing in particular).
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#28 - 2013-12-26 11:14:05 UTC
But both of those are legitimate game mechanics, not griefing in any way.

And why awox a newbie when you can snag the guy in the expensive ship and make some ISK out of it? Are you sure you weren't just collateral damage?
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-12-26 12:36:42 UTC
This may have already been posted, but I must add that you need a corp to field stationary space assets like POSes.
I hope that in the future we'll have more stuff like that (aka "sandcastles among the stars dream") to promote being in a player corp and participate in hisec life more actively.
I am disposable
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2013-12-26 13:11:15 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
But both of those are legitimate game mechanics, not griefing in any way.

And why awox a newbie when you can snag the guy in the expensive ship and make some ISK out of it? Are you sure you weren't just collateral damage?


Wardeccing as it currently exists allows veteran players (read wealthy) to completely bypass Concord for a pittance when attacking small corps. This is legitimate?

Awoxing in high sec (the only place it is currently out of whack) does not illicit any response from Concord, thereby allowing veteran players to kill new players with impunity (and said new players likely will not know such mechanics exist). This is legitimate?

Yeah sorry, I'm not seeing anything legitimate about those game mechanics as currently designed.
palcopy Yaken
London Elektricity
#31 - 2013-12-26 15:18:03 UTC  |  Edited by: palcopy Yaken
I am disposable wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
But both of those are legitimate game mechanics, not griefing in any way.

And why awox a newbie when you can snag the guy in the expensive ship and make some ISK out of it? Are you sure you weren't just collateral damage?


Wardeccing as it currently exists allows veteran players (read wealthy) to completely bypass Concord for a pittance when attacking small corps. This is legitimate?

Awoxing in high sec (the only place it is currently out of whack) does not illicit any response from Concord, thereby allowing veteran players to kill new players with impunity (and said new players likely will not know such mechanics exist). This is legitimate?

Yeah sorry, I'm not seeing anything legitimate about those game mechanics as currently designed.


Of courses, anyone with less than 3months old on eve, is a newbie. Do you imagine separated servers for newbie people, and then 'graduate' to the mayor server? ;D

Again, dont know why camping outside of a mall center its ok to the police to me... U have to choose, to protect the economy, or encourage the war.. but not both of them

It's clear to me that if wardec is still going on, then i'll have to move from my corp. i dont want be killed yet, i want to learn the game =)
I am disposable
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-12-27 00:54:50 UTC
palcopy Yaken wrote:
I am disposable wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
But both of those are legitimate game mechanics, not griefing in any way.

And why awox a newbie when you can snag the guy in the expensive ship and make some ISK out of it? Are you sure you weren't just collateral damage?


Wardeccing as it currently exists allows veteran players (read wealthy) to completely bypass Concord for a pittance when attacking small corps. This is legitimate?

Awoxing in high sec (the only place it is currently out of whack) does not illicit any response from Concord, thereby allowing veteran players to kill new players with impunity (and said new players likely will not know such mechanics exist). This is legitimate?

Yeah sorry, I'm not seeing anything legitimate about those game mechanics as currently designed.


Of courses, anyone with less than 3months old on eve, is a newbie. Do you imagine separated servers for newbie people, and then 'graduate' to the mayor server? ;D

Again, dont know why camping outside of a mall center its ok to the police to me... U have to choose, to protect the economy, or encourage the war.. but not both of them

It's clear to me that if wardec is still going on, then i'll have to move from my corp. i dont want be killed yet, i want to learn the game =)


Separate servers? No. I already explained how wardeccing could be fixed to avoid the griefing of new players earlier in this thread, and awoxing in high sec should be changed to cause the standard response from Concord for attacking another player. It's really simple honestly.
Evil Incarn8
Evil's League of Evil
#33 - 2013-12-27 20:20:49 UTC
Wow thanks for all the replies guys/girls,

It seems most of you have concentrated on one small point that I made, highsec wardecs. I want to make it clear that I am not calling for them to be removed or changed, I accept that there are large established corps out there that enjoy stamping on people who are still learning to walk, and well, that is EvE in a nutshell isn't it.

I am not asking for more safety, I am not asking for nerfs or buffs, I am not asking even for more fixed developer content. I am asking for discussion on a concept.

What I am asking for discussion on is reasons for PvE/ Production/ Solo players to feel a need to group up and experiance the community aspects of EvE, (which is the reason we are playing an MMO) but without the need to join some null sec alliance to do it. I am trying to find a way to encourage the cameradere and team work of null, within the lifestyle of highsec.

Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#34 - 2013-12-27 23:01:00 UTC
I'd first like to see your definition of what highsec lifestyle means.

When I think of highsec - outside of wardec alliances I never saw a need to even communicate with others. Infact other people were just an irritation and got in my way.
I am disposable
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2013-12-27 23:02:34 UTC
Evil Incarn8 wrote:
Wow thanks for all the replies guys/girls,

It seems most of you have concentrated on one small point that I made, highsec wardecs. I want to make it clear that I am not calling for them to be removed or changed, I accept that there are large established corps out there that enjoy stamping on people who are still learning to walk, and well, that is EvE in a nutshell isn't it.

I am not asking for more safety, I am not asking for nerfs or buffs, I am not asking even for more fixed developer content. I am asking for discussion on a concept.

What I am asking for discussion on is reasons for PvE/ Production/ Solo players to feel a need to group up and experiance the community aspects of EvE, (which is the reason we are playing an MMO) but without the need to join some null sec alliance to do it. I am trying to find a way to encourage the cameradere and team work of null, within the lifestyle of highsec.



There is no way to encourage such things as long as wardeccing and high sec awoxing exist in their current forms. So while you are saying that you aren't asking for these things to change, the truth is they must change to get what you are asking for. As long as building even moderately large high sec corps comes with nothing but downside, most high sec dwellers without the interest or the skill to engage in high sec warfare will simply avoid it.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#36 - 2013-12-27 23:12:07 UTC
I really fail to see how your highsec corp is getting wardecs so often. I mean we are talking about a place where there is very little incentive to even work together I the first place. in my minds eye I could see a highsec corp forming but whst would they even actually do as a group? Isn't that the whole point of this topic?

Should level 5s be returned to highsec? They're the only real fleet pve activities to do outside of incursions.
I am disposable
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2013-12-28 00:21:42 UTC  |  Edited by: I am disposable
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
I really fail to see how your highsec corp is getting wardecs so often. I mean we are talking about a place where there is very little incentive to even work together I the first place. in my minds eye I could see a highsec corp forming but whst would they even actually do as a group? Isn't that the whole point of this topic?

Should level 5s be returned to highsec? They're the only real fleet pve activities to do outside of incursions.


There are plenty of corps that only ever wardec growing corps with lots of noobs in their ranks. Are you really this ignorant of the high sec landscape?

Seeing as I live in a wormhole, it doesn't affect me personally, nor do I care all that much, but the answer to the OP's question of how to encourage the formation of high sec corps is to redesign elements that currently discourage it. One of the main reasons people often stay in NPC corps is to protect themselves from wardeccing and awoxing. This really can't be denied.

Also I do not believe high sec needs to be buffed in terms of content or isk-making potential. So I would definitely say no to level 5 missions in high sec. I still don't think incursions should be in high sec to be honest.
Zachpan
Star Dancers
#38 - 2013-12-28 00:34:52 UTC
You are right Evil Incar8, its amazing how forum discussions can drift and in this case settle on Hisec wardecs and their effect. Obviously many feel that is relevant to the corp formation prospects. And I for one do not dispute its relevance. But there is a lot more to the issue of of how to realise the potential of corps in making the game more social.

One is playable content. Many MMO's rely on 'instances' or 'raids' which can be successfully cleared only with a well balanced team. Could some higher level missions be redesigned with that in mind, or maybe even a separate stream of missions at all levels targeted at groups rather than individuals?

Another issue has to do with asset management. How many of the corporations in Eve consist of only of alts of just one RL player? Why do they exist? Have you ever tried to efficiently share resources between your alts without them being directors of your own corp with a hangar at a station? And once you do go down that path you lost your ability to join a real corporation.

Finally there is that issue of trust which has been mentioned by several respondents. Eve does not encourage trust in strangers and before you join a corp they are strangers to you and you a stranger to them. Actually I would see that as a compelling reason to join a corp as soon as you can find one you like. But what is needed is a more graduated process of joining a new corp, a way to get to know each other with limited risks to either side as what maybe called a novice or apprentice, someone with limited access to the corps and also limited exposure to any wars that corp might be in.

In summary: The corporation structures and the interface is probably the weakest part of what is otherwise a great game. Get to it CCP! You can do better :)
I am disposable
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-12-28 01:04:50 UTC
Zachpan wrote:
You are right Evil Incar8, its amazing how forum discussions can drift and in this case settle on Hisec wardecs and their effect. Obviously many feel that is relevant to the corp formation prospects. And I for one do not dispute its relevance. But there is a lot more to the issue of of how to realise the potential of corps in making the game more social.

One is playable content. Many MMO's rely on 'instances' or 'raids' which can be successfully cleared only with a well balanced team. Could some higher level missions be redesigned with that in mind, or maybe even a separate stream of missions at all levels targeted at groups rather than individuals?

Another issue has to do with asset management. How many of the corporations in Eve consist of only of alts of just one RL player? Why do they exist? Have you ever tried to efficiently share resources between your alts without them being directors of your own corp with a hangar at a station? And once you do go down that path you lost your ability to join a real corporation.

Finally there is that issue of trust which has been mentioned by several respondents. Eve does not encourage trust in strangers and before you join a corp they are strangers to you and you a stranger to them. Actually I would see that as a compelling reason to join a corp as soon as you can find one you like. But what is needed is a more graduated process of joining a new corp, a way to get to know each other with limited risks to either side as what maybe called a novice or apprentice, someone with limited access to the corps and also limited exposure to any wars that corp might be in.

In summary: The corporation structures and the interface is probably the weakest part of what is otherwise a great game. Get to it CCP! You can do better :)


While there are definitely other issues, your post mostly comes down to pointing out that fear and distrust are keeping people from joining corps in high sec. That fear and distrust is mostly the result of the current wardec and awox mechanics in high sec. That is what I'm trying to point out.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#40 - 2013-12-28 01:18:48 UTC
You made your point one whole page ago now you're just rambling. I was in whores in space which was for a time the #1 wardec alliance in the game with more isk killed than all other wardec alliances combined. Please don't breathe down my neck about something you clearly have no experience with. As a policy wardecs against small corporations had to be privately funded by the interested parties ot by contract to people hiring us. The majority of our wardecs by the end were against major null alliances and pirate corps. It was actually pointed out on reddit that entering highsec especially the Jita and amarr areas during a wardec from us was a very stupid idea. There really is a lot more to the story than your shallow interpretation and noone really cares about deccing actual newbs because you can't make money from it.

As far as the rest of this thread I've said my piece and now bow out.
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