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Where to start my pvp?

Author
Deadman Ohaya
Dead Logistics
#1 - 2013-12-27 01:30:11 UTC
So here's the situation. I enjoy PvP. Every game i play it's what i do.

I'm new to eve (less than a week)

I want to learn PvP here. I don't care if i die horribly and get podded. All part of the learning curve.

I also want to be able to run some missions/mine to pay for my pvp habit, without dying every time i undock.

Have done some research and each seems to have pros and cons.

1. Red vs Blue.

Looks fun, ideal for a newb like me, but would probably interfere with isk earning to pay for new ships etc. as it's everywhere.

2. Faction Wars.

Looks fun too, maybe a bit above my current skill level of none at all, but should mean i am a lot safer making isk in my own factions hi-sec space?

3. A dedicated PvP corp.

Sounds great, learn the ropes from experienced players, mission/rat/mine in corp fleets or corp owned space giving some security. I guess experienced corps only want experienced players though and don't want to handhold a newb.


So what would your suggestions be? Which of the above is best for a brand new player, or another suggestion maybe?

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#2 - 2013-12-27 01:37:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Deadman Ohaya wrote:
So here's the situation. I enjoy PvP. Every game i play it's what i do.

I'm new to eve (less than a week)

I want to learn PvP here. I don't care if i die horribly and get podded. All part of the learning curve.

I also want to be able to run some missions/mine to pay for my pvp habit, without dying every time i undock.

Have done some research and each seems to have pros and cons.

1. Red vs Blue.

Looks fun, ideal for a newb like me, but would probably interfere with isk earning to pay for new ships etc. as it's everywhere.

2. Faction Wars.

Looks fun too, maybe a bit above my current skill level of none at all, but should mean i am a lot safer making isk in my own factions hi-sec space?

3. A dedicated PvP corp.

Sounds great, learn the ropes from experienced players, mission/rat/mine in corp fleets or corp owned space giving some security. I guess experienced corps only want experienced players though and don't want to handhold a newb.


So what would your suggestions be? Which of the above is best for a brand new player, or another suggestion maybe?





Heh

Welcome to the game.

You appear to be on the right tracks as far as thinking of your options is concerned. But let me tell you one important thing: the skill que.

One of the biggest issues with new PVPers is that they tire fast of being reaped. This is natural. Poor training is one reason. So what I would like to suggest for you, whether you get into FW, Solo PVP, small gang PVP, or even mega fleet battle blobs, is to know your goals and train directly for them.

For example. I have over 70 million SP, but only Amarr cruiser 4 and no specialization in energy weapons. So let's suppose I go up against a 2 month noob using the same layout, but is having Amarr 5 with level 5 specializations not only for the ship, but for the equipment as well. The best I could manage are support skills.

Me and that 2 month noob would be just about equally matched on those grounds.

Proper skill training will make you effective in PVP on short order. The SP system is genius, and not to be confused with any "grind" or "put in time" philosophy that we see in other MMOs. But the incredible power of the SP system also gives one a lot of rope to hang himself if lacking knowledge. This is why we have the certificate system and the new (so new I have not even used it yet) mastery rating system for ships. You see the SP system is so flexible and powerful for the new player that CCP has to make special tools and features just to we can use it.

With proper approaches to the SP system you can be quite capable in all kinds of PVP in just a couple of months at most.


The approach I would recommend - but mine is not the only one - is to decide this first:
- how you want to PVP (small gang, solo, FW, fleet, ganks, etc)
- what role you want in PVP (support, tackle, DPS, logistics, etc)
- what ships you would use in these options and....
- what bonuses these ships afford to certain equipment choices (you should never go against the bonuses it's pure waste if you do) and therefore..
- this is ultimately what you will center your skill training choices on.

Given that, you aim for level 4 of all the of the skills, the direct skills and the so-called "support" skills. For example, a specialization skill in small projective turrets is a direct skill but sharpshooting would be a support skill. Caldari Frigate would be a direct skill but Spaceship command would be a support skill. Get your direct skills to level 5 ASAP (these let you get into tech 2 variants of ships and modules you want to use) and get the support skills to 4 ASAP. Sometimes a ship skill must be level 5 to progress. For example, if you decide you want to tackle, interceptor would be a good choice, but frigate 5 is needed to get to tech 2 interceptor.

I have heard stories of 5 million SP characters PWNING 50 million SP players because one had a better handle on the SP system than the other. And the number one "killer" of players is not getting ganked or getting bored, it's stagnation brought on by poor SP application - lots of players at 5 million SP comparing themselves to 50M SP players, PVPers mainly getting spanked by veterans who have been playing since 2006 for example, and thinking they too won't have success unless they have been at this game for just as long, then assuming their opponents will be "twice as powerful" for still having been in longer. This is very incorrect thinking and should be avoided.


Everything I am telling you BTW is not what I have done. I don't write from the perspective of an expert in SP, I write from numerous mistakes made during the course of over 7 years. I didn't get maximum yield from any ship until several years into the game, in any endeavor, and this was my situation for a few years in. I could have spared a lot of ships and a lot of ISK if I learned how to train the right skills the first time around.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#3 - 2013-12-27 02:03:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
1. Red vs Blue.

  • It's fun, it's cheap if you stick to small ships.
  • You're chucked in at the deepend, they don't train as such but there are always newbfleets organised by other more experienced players.
  • IIRC the hisec PvP area is limited to The Forge, you can carebear all you like anywhere else; unless of course they're at war with a third party.
  • Excellent introduction to PvP, I would follow it up with contacting Agony about their classes after a few months when you have ISK and some basics down.


I don't know much about faction warfare so I'll let more qualified people cover it, the same goes for a dedicated PvP corp.

You should also check out Tippia's Newbie Skill Plan 2.0 and Louis's Epic Skill Guide

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#4 - 2013-12-27 02:57:25 UTC
Deadman Ohaya wrote:

So what would your suggestions be? Which of the above is best for a brand new player, or another suggestion maybe?


Run missions for isk, not mining. ISK/hr from mining is far inferior, the only way to make serious isk mining is by multi-boxing.

Also stick to small ships - frigates, interceptors, etc. There's a common thought among newbies that bigger = better. That is simply not true. A battleship can be quite easily killed by an assault frigate who knows what he is doing, if said battleship pilot is not skilled.

By sticking to smaller ships you are limiting the cost of your loss, so learning doesn't become too expensive. Everything you learn in a small ship will apply for cruisers and battlecruisers too. Battleships not so much, since they are very slow their fighting style is different. You'll learn about transversal, when to kite, when to close in, optimal range, etc. It takes a lot of practice. Also as the novelty of combat wears off (and combats start to last longer because you don't die right away!) you'll learn to figure out what weapons your enemy is fitting and how you can possibly counter them while still delivering max damage. Also at some point you will learn situational awareness. Very, very few combats in EvE are 1v1. Your target is often "bait", and his gang of buddies were just waiting for you to aggress before jumping in.

There's lots and lots of little details like this which must become instinctive, even reflexive. Also with frigates it doesn't take too long to max out the ship skills and small weapon skills. This leaves you more time to train the support skills too - since they will help you no matter which size ship you end up flying.

Learn when it's worth it to buy T2 modules, and when meta 3 or meta 4 is good enough. A lot of people think that EvE is won by whichever toon has more skill-points but that's not true. It takes skill at combat - real life skill. And that can only be earned by practicing. Oh and don't be afraid to talk to people whether you win or lose. Don't smack, be friendly, and you might make friends (always useful when you don't want to be on the outnumbered side all the time) and learn many different techniques from them. Don't be afraid to join corps and alliances either. Get yourself Teamspeak 3 or mumble, and be on comms with your buddies.

That's about it for a summary. Good luck!
Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#5 - 2013-12-27 06:30:17 UTC
Join a corp, FW, RVB, PVP corp. Doesn't matter, so long as you join up with experienced pilots your doing the right thing. If you have a group of guys and gals to get you through the rough early patches that is called the newb experience you will enjoy this game so much more and be in for the long haul rather than trying to figure things out yourself.

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."

Chirjo Durruti
Doomheim
#6 - 2013-12-27 07:14:23 UTC
Can't recommend FW. Tried it 3 weeks long. Was fine at first, joined fleets, got onto the TS they advertised in fleet chat. The third or second time i got onto TS (nearly one week passed) they thought they had a spy. Being the new guy, i was accused and found "guilty" in ~20s without me being able to defend myself, because nobody bothered to give me the rights to unlock my microphone.

After that? Shut out from fleets, I tried for 2 weeks to roam solo. With only a good 4mil SP (mostly drone skills) you can guess how that went. Only thing i learned in that time was how to evade others in lowsec and what i was able to pick up in fleet before that.

Didn't make a positive wallet balance in this 3 weeks time, either. Even flying solo for 2 weeks, i wasn't able to break even. And you can forget about achieving this in a fleet.

FW? Stay away from it.

HOWTO: No More Tears (solo) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdA4ciUrH-k If you can get me a better crew than THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPrtQ9AdoM0 convo me.

Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#7 - 2013-12-27 09:03:00 UTC
Don't let Chirjo discourage you though. He may have had a bad time in FW but that does not mean you will. I personaly recommend it.

Also seriously Chirjo? Couldn't make profit? you did something VERY wrong then.

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."

Chirjo Durruti
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-12-27 11:03:52 UTC
Job Valador wrote:
Also seriously Chirjo? Couldn't make profit? you did something VERY wrong then.

Faction was Tier 1 the whole time, isk to lp ratio ~1k isk/lp. Lost about 15 T1 frigs ~10m isk a piece. To get even, i would have had to offensive plex a minimum of 2 novice sites solo per lost frig. Well, good luck with that. FW lowsec is crawling with pirates and in the few quiet systems sites are already "occupied" by other militia members that all go "wtf dude?!" if you show up in "their" plex Roll.

And you can forget to earn substantial LP when in fleet most of the time.

Granted, it got better towards the end of these 3 weeks. But only because i was avoiding combat at all costs. Which made the whole thing kinda pointless because i joined FW to train combat skills.

HOWTO: No More Tears (solo) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdA4ciUrH-k If you can get me a better crew than THIS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPrtQ9AdoM0 convo me.

WASPY69
Xerum.
#9 - 2013-12-27 11:21:12 UTC
I would suggest a faction warfare corp. Faction warfare is NOT above your skill level, it's full of new players just like you as well as more experienced ones. And bigger player run faction warfare corps are generally newbie friendly and only fly in T1 hulls, so it's cheap pvp.
All you need to pvp and to kill someone is a point and guns (with ammo in them) and to find the optimal target. Your main thing when starting out will be dying A LOT and getting the valuable pvp experience.
I would suggest that if you're left with a "What the F* just happened?!" feeling after a fight, look up the pilots killboard for recent ship fits and perhaps even strike up a convo.
Pvp pilots are generally helpful towards newbies and happy to offer advice and tell you why you died in 3 seconds.

And lastly, if you have the patience, get in a ship with a slightly longer life expectancy (Tanky cruiser for example), set a long route with the "Prefer less secure" setting, and just warp system by system looking for people to shoot.

This signature intentionally left blank

Aurora Fatalis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-12-27 12:37:20 UTC
Chirjo Durruti wrote:
Job Valador wrote:
Also seriously Chirjo? Couldn't make profit? you did something VERY wrong then.

Faction was Tier 1 the whole time, isk to lp ratio ~1k isk/lp. Lost about 15 T1 frigs ~10m isk a piece. To get even, i would have had to offensive plex a minimum of 2 novice sites solo per lost frig. Well, good luck with that. FW lowsec is crawling with pirates and in the few quiet systems sites are already "occupied" by other militia members that all go "wtf dude?!" if you show up in "their" plex Roll.

And you can forget to earn substantial LP when in fleet most of the time.

Granted, it got better towards the end of these 3 weeks. But only because i was avoiding combat at all costs. Which made the whole thing kinda pointless because i joined FW to train combat skills.

You've got 4M sp and your T1 frigs cost 10m?

ISK is no trouble in FW, really, as long as you take the time to do some plexes inbetween losing ships.

You can also train level 3 PI skills, get a 500k/hour passive income stream, and never go broke losing T1-fitted T1 ships.

If Chribba told you not to trust him, would you?

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#11 - 2013-12-27 13:26:12 UTC
PVP starts at home

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-12-27 15:36:09 UTC
Deadman Ohaya wrote:
So here's the situation. I enjoy PvP. Every game i play it's what i do.

I'm new to eve (less than a week)

I want to learn PvP here. I don't care if i die horribly and get podded. All part of the learning curve.

I also want to be able to run some missions/mine to pay for my pvp habit, without dying every time i undock.

Have done some research and each seems to have pros and cons.

1. Red vs Blue.

Looks fun, ideal for a newb like me, but would probably interfere with isk earning to pay for new ships etc. as it's everywhere.

2. Faction Wars.

Looks fun too, maybe a bit above my current skill level of none at all, but should mean i am a lot safer making isk in my own factions hi-sec space?

3. A dedicated PvP corp.

Sounds great, learn the ropes from experienced players, mission/rat/mine in corp fleets or corp owned space giving some security. I guess experienced corps only want experienced players though and don't want to handhold a newb.


So what would your suggestions be? Which of the above is best for a brand new player, or another suggestion maybe?


Most players run at least 2 accounts some more. Key is to get the account self sufficient.

1. Great option will learn how to fly small to large gange pvp. Limited ability to maker money on solo account bc always at war.


2. Also good option will make tons of isk converting LP while learning to PVP. Will learn low sec combat mechanics and fits but will have to adapt should you go to null sec.

3. PVP corps are fun but without another form of income you will always be broke and scrambling to make isk.
Rells
Lethal Riposte
#13 - 2013-12-27 16:19:21 UTC
PVP is largely about state of mind more than equipment. The best PVP I ever had was in tech 1 frigs and to this day I prefer frigs and destroyers and some friends.

I am probably going to come back to Eve and create a Gallente Faction warfare / 0.0 syndicate corp and give classes again. As I understand it the Agony classes regrettably don't occur very often anymore. If I do so then that is where you want to start. Start with a mentor that has seen combat. I may work in cooperation with Agony (that would be my preference) but that largely depends upon them.

Now many people probably have no idea who I am but I have, in fact, seen quite a lot of combat.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#14 - 2013-12-27 17:11:28 UTC
Deadman Ohaya wrote:

1. Red vs Blue.

Looks fun, ideal for a newb like me, but would probably interfere with isk earning to pay for new ships etc. as it's everywhere.

Some might argue this isn't "real" PvP since it has a scripted and controlled feel. You don't get the full brunt of Eve's asymmetrical warfare here.



Deadman Ohaya wrote:

2. Faction Wars.

Looks fun too, maybe a bit above my current skill level of none at all, but should mean i am a lot safer making isk in my own factions hi-sec space?

So long as you don't go nuts on shooting allies/neutral people in lowsec, you will still be able to dwell and make ISK in hisec. Additionally due to the current way FW functions, it is one of the best ways for a new character to make ludicrous piles of money at next to no risk. I will not detail that blasphemous practice here, though.

Deadman Ohaya wrote:

3. A dedicated PvP corp.

Sounds great, learn the ropes from experienced players, mission/rat/mine in corp fleets or corp owned space giving some security. I guess experienced corps only want experienced players though and don't want to handhold a newb.


Some of us do Blink. Check my sig.

I strongly recommend not trying to learn PvP on your own. There are a lot of nuances, tactics, and details that are easy to miss as you're learning, and having someone to mentor you is a huge help. On top of this, solo PvP is difficult for pilots of any age, which is why I encourage new players to look into participating in small gangs or fleets, where they can be very useful from day one.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#15 - 2013-12-27 17:15:57 UTC
Chirjo Durruti wrote:
Can't recommend FW. Tried it 3 weeks long. {snip}


Such is the experience in the basic NPC FW corp (Tribal Liberation Force, 24th Imperial Crusade, State Protectorate, Federal Defense Union). These corps have little to no organization, and with no restrictions to entry, everyone in there is automatically suspected of being an alt of the enemy.

Before ruling out FW, try it in a real corporation/alliance.


Chirjo Durruti wrote:
Didn't make a positive wallet balance in this 3 weeks time, either. Even flying solo for 2 weeks, i wasn't able to break even. And you can forget about achieving this in a fleet.


My 1.5 mil SP alt can make more than 100 mil ISK in an hour in FW, which would take losing 50 well-fit PvP ships to offset. You're either not taking advantage of FW ISK-making, are fitting obnoxiously and unnecessarily expensive ships, or both. I would look into that.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

Northern Misfit
Far Mt Logistics
#16 - 2013-12-27 18:33:05 UTC
I think it's great that you're looking at getting into PvP. I think it's also great that you are looking at RvB as an option for getting into it. I think the most important thing here is to find a group (any group - even if it's not with me) to roam with. Having companions in the game, taking advantage of their experience and learning while doing are all important in this game. Eve is just as much a social experience as it is an explosive one. Try things out, find a ship that is comfortable and hone the skills needed to fly it, pretty soon it'll be like a part of you. (Gawd that sounded pretty lame I know).

When it comes to isk, it's always a good idea to have a character that is doing the grinding for you. I have a couple of "carebears" that keep me in ships and isk so that I can continue blowing up things. If you do decide to learn a few things in RvB I'll hook you up with a few replacement hulls - you'll need them P

High Priestess of the Sovereign Realm of Explosions and Light