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T2 BPOs -- can I get a DEV reply?
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XS Tech 2,802
Velicitia XS Tech Likes received: 2,802	#81 - 2011-11-22 19:24:20 UTC Akita T wrote: lots of stuff. ohai Akita! glad you decided to join the party. One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Velicitia

XS Tech

Likes received: 2,802

#82 - 2011-11-22 19:38:40 UTC | Edited by: Velicitia

Rainrider wrote:

Breaker77 wrote:

(stuff)

Ever looked and a Hulk BPO?????
you can make copies with 10 runs each........
so go ahead invent use the invertion process to make a 100 Hulk
I will just run off 100 10 run BPC from my BPO Lol

and mine BPC with be ME zero (like I'm not going to research it Roll

)

well, I suppose you could waste a month making a single 10-run BPC ...

Hulk Blueprint:

Research Copy Time - Max Copies (BASE)
1 month, 7 days, 53 minutes, 20 seconds

Research Copy Time - Max Copies (With Science Skill Bonus)
Level 1: 1 month, 5 days, 4 hours, 26 minutes, 40 seconds
Level 2: 1 month, 3 days, 8 hours
Level 3: 1 month, 1 day, 11 hours, 33 minutes, 20 seconds
Level 4: 29 days, 15 hours, 6 minutes, 40 seconds
Level 5: 27 days, 18 hours, 40 minutes

Research Copy Time - Single Copy (With Science Skill Bonus)
Level 1: 3 days, 12 hours, 26 minutes, 40 seconds
Level 2: 3 days, 8 hours
Level 3: 3 days, 3 hours, 33 minutes, 20 seconds
Level 4: 2 days, 23 hours, 6 minutes, 40 seconds
Level 5: 2 days, 18 hours, 40 minutes

Covetor Blueprint:

Research Copy Time - Max Copies (BASE)
2 days, 18 hours, 40 minutes

Research Copy Time - Max Copies (With Science Skill Bonus)
Level 1: 2 days, 15 hours, 20 minutes
Level 2: 2 days, 12 hours
Level 3: 2 days, 8 hours, 40 minutes
Level 4: 2 days, 5 hours, 20 minutes
Level 5: 2 days, 2 hours

Research Copy Time - Single Copy (With Science Skill Bonus)
Level 1: 6 hours, 20 minutes
Level 2: 6 hours
Level 3: 5 hours, 40 minutes
Level 4: 5 hours, 20 minutes
Level 5: 5 hours

Invention Time
1 day, 1 hour

Just for ***** and giggles, let's say we run 10x 1-run copies. we've spent 2d 2h making covetor BPC (and 27 days for the hulk BPC).

For simplicity's sake, we'll assume you have 5/5/5 skills for a final invention result of 25% success.

so in 3 days of covetor copying/invention you have ~ 2 -4/-4 BPC in 3 days of copying, you have ZERO 0/0 BPC
After 30 days of invention you'll end up with approximately twenty-five -4/-4 BPC as opposed to TEN 0/0 BPC from the BPO.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

IonHammer

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 8

#83 - 2011-11-23 07:20:21 UTC

Posting in another long run T2 bpo's are the devils business thread.

Things I have worked out over the last 7 years.

Before invention T2 bpo's set the supply with greater demand prices were high. VERY HIGH compared to today

T2 cap recharger 15 20 mill
PDU 2 5-7 mill

Hulk 500 mill iirc

Once invention matured increased supply from invention and slightly increased demand from game growth lead to prices slightly above invention build prices.

In an unconstrained production system to say you need you bpc at 0 or 4 instead of -4 or -2 won't in the long term won't make you more profit.

As a group inventors determine the profit from which they are willing to do the work for. With no way to differentiate from each other you will always be building at just above manufacture.

Invention set the quantity not bpo's

having several t2 bpo's all I can say is I produce from about 1/3 of them i have modules and ammo no ships which have a greater proportion on quantity.

I do have a veldspar t2 bpo which the initial poster talked about all i can is its not worth me making them with a bpo advantage why does anyone do it using invention beats me.

awaiting with baited breath the next great T2 bpo's are the devils business thread.

Stella SGP

Likes received: 222

#84 - 2011-11-23 07:41:19 UTC | Edited by: Stella SGP

Rainrider wrote:

Ever looked and a Hulk BPO?????
you can make copies with 10 runs each........
so go ahead invent use the invertion process to make a 100 Hulk
I will just run off 100 10 run BPC from my BPO Lol

and mine BPC with be ME zero (like I'm not going to research it Roll

)

Rainrider wrote:

say it all...

I too do not own a T2 BPO, but I have done Invention and I can tell you it's cheaper to buy most of the items from the open maket Most of the time......yes I too can find items that you can make isk at with invention

(see posts regarding Hanmmerhead II)

Yes, you obviously don't own a T2 BPO, nor do you know how T2 BPOs work. So, stop spouting nonsense here and go back to your cave.

Arcan Winter

Hedion University

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 13

#85 - 2011-11-23 07:57:39 UTC

Rainrider wrote:

Arcan Winter wrote:

Rainrider wrote:

...

what I can not make copies my my T2 BPO?
make 5 1500 run T2 BPC (lets say Hammerhead II)
Look the invertion and production of just ONE hamerhead is just under 920K isk
do the F-in math
and yes I will sell you 1500 Hammerhead II today at a special cost to you on only 920,001isk per unit

Well, maybe you should take a look at the copy time of T2 BPO. For your example of Hammerhead II it will take longer time to make a copy at a POS lab than it takes to build a Hammerhead II (think the same is valied for most/all T2 BPO). So by doing copies you will lower your production, not increase it!.

Even, with a T2 Hammerhead II BPO you will not be able to make 1500 copies, max is 100.

And about cost of Hammerhead II, they sell at jita for 540k p/u at the moment. And if you know your math you should know an inventer will make profit at that price level!

So what are you trying to say?

the buy order for the datacore need to do the invention are 680,000isk

or

do you get then free?????

No I don’t get them for free, I assume the Jita sell order prices which I hope you can accept as a fair one.

Since my math apparently must be much weaker than yours, please enlight me of whats the big error below are:

Jita sell order price_
Datacore - Electronic Engineering -> 210K each
Datacore - Mechanical Engineering -> 225K each

You need 2 of each so total data core cost per attempt is 870k (higher than your buy order value)
The success rate is 48%, so the cost for a successful (you get a 10-run copy) invention are 1812k.
This means that the invention cost for one Hammerhead II is 182k.

Now buy the remaining material (from Jita sell order) you need for one hammerhead and add the costs, and it will be under 540k.

Cyniac

Federal Navy Academy

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 243

#86 - 2011-11-23 10:38:20 UTC | Edited by: Cyniac

Arcan Winter wrote:

Drone invention is out of whack but I suspect it has nothing to do with T2 BPOs and a lot to do with PI.

Specifically the massive stocks of PI materials that most drone producers stocked up before PI was introduced. In practice this means that you are competing with someone who bought their robotics and guidance systems at around 7000 isk each.

Which yeah... makes it impossible to compete currently with invention.

What I really don't understand is why those people don't just sell their PI stock on the market and laugh at the profits - it would be about equivalent profit wise and a lot less hassle.

Mind you the market seems to be stabilizing now.

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