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Drones Online

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#281 - 2013-12-26 18:12:40 UTC
Because the ability to coordinate warps is equatable to having a single person wield an entire fleet's alpha perfectly negating any error from differences in human interaction among them, not to mention bypassing their scan resolution and lock range entirely.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#282 - 2013-12-26 18:16:29 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Because the ability to coordinate warps is equatable to having a single person wield an entire fleet's alpha perfectly negating any error from differences in human interaction among them, not to mention bypassing their scan resolution and lock range entirely.


Why do you keep beating this dead horse?
You've already admitted that there is a counter to the Slow-cat blob, you are just unwilling to use it.
If your fear of losing, outweighs your need to win, why are you even still playing this game?

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#283 - 2013-12-26 18:24:08 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Capital rebalance IS coming.
Drone assist is also, aside from its strengths and weaknesses, a pretty stupid mechanic.

Also, we are definitely willing to use the counter. We're just not ready to yet.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#284 - 2013-12-26 18:29:43 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Because the ability to coordinate warps is equatable to having a single person wield an entire fleet's alpha perfectly negating any error from differences in human interaction among them, not to mention bypassing their scan resolution and lock range entirely.


Warp speed is negated in a fleet warp, scanres is negated in drone assist.
The whole fleet initiate warp and hit grid at the same time, the whole fleet's alpha hits the target at the same time with drone assist.

The difference is navigation vs weaponry, its the same concept.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#285 - 2013-12-26 18:30:34 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Capital rebalance IS coming.
Drone assist is also, aside from its strengths and weaknesses, a pretty stupid mechanic.

Also, we are definitely willing to use the counter. We're just not ready to yet.


So in the meantime NERF THE THING THAT WE CAN'T BEAT BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T SUFFICIENTLY TRAINED THE COUNTER!!!!!1!

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#286 - 2013-12-26 18:41:59 UTC
Yeah, because I totally expect CCP to get right on that.
Also with fleet warp everyone warps with the slowest member, so your analogy doesn't work.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#287 - 2013-12-26 18:44:10 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Because the ability to coordinate warps is equatable to having a single person wield an entire fleet's alpha perfectly negating any error from differences in human interaction among them, not to mention bypassing their scan resolution and lock range entirely.


Warp speed is negated in a fleet warp, scanres is negated in drone assist.
The whole fleet initiate warp and hit grid at the same time, the whole fleet's alpha hits the target at the same time with drone assist.

The difference is navigation vs weaponry, its the same concept.


Fleet warp is available to any fleet of any size with any weapon system. If the problem with it is that it allows the FC to take control, then that characteristic can be replaced - coordinated movement is still of value. Perhaps CCP could remove fleet warp and in its place allow pilots to set their warp speed, thus requiring fleets to properly match their speed and initiate warp to get the same coordination. Viola, player skill and interaction matters for movement.

Drone assist allows you to ignore fitting compromises gunships have to make and has no redeeming characteristics. If drone users want coordinated volleys, they can count down like anyone else.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#288 - 2013-12-26 18:45:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Because the ability to coordinate warps is equatable to having a single person wield an entire fleet's alpha perfectly negating any error from differences in human interaction among them,


It is actually, as fleet warping removes any and all possible errors in timing on bomber fleet warps, it removes any an all possibilities of error during combat fleet warps, and thus negates all differences in human interaction and any possible error on the pilots part.

However none of that matters because the core valid complaint about drone assist is that you're turning over control of you ship to another player. So if we're going down that road, we remove all methods of turning over control of your ship to another players.

Don't try and change the reasons 14 pages in or nuance them in some way, you want players to be responsible for their own ships, and thats something I can fully support, only they have to be responsible for ALL the actions of their ships.

Have fun getting 1k dudes moved around easily in that situation Lol



James Amril-Kesh wrote:
not to mention bypassing their scan resolution and lock range entirely.


All carriers have the same lock range, and it would be trivial to give them all the same scan res by just circle jerking RSB's so this bit here is something you've imagined being a thing.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#289 - 2013-12-26 18:51:14 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:


James Amril-Kesh wrote:
not to mention bypassing their scan resolution and lock range entirely.


All carriers have the same lock range, and it would be trivial to give them all the same scan res by just circle jerking RSB's so this bit here


It would be trivial. It would also mean making compromises, just like gunships have to make for greater range.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#290 - 2013-12-26 19:17:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Leigh Akiga
Clearly the entrenched elite are heavily invested in maintaining the capital status quo. How long will CCP allow 0.0 to be dominated by these one percenters who seek to keep the new player or the casual out of nullsec.

Does this fit CCP Seagulls vision laid out at fanfest of brave explorers venturing off into the unknown? Or do you need 60m skillpoints and a supercap first?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#291 - 2013-12-26 19:18:05 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
it would be trivial to give them all the same scan res by just circle jerking RSB's so this bit here is something you've imagined being a thing.

Trivial, eh?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#292 - 2013-12-26 19:31:32 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
Leigh Akiga wrote:
Clearly the entrenched elite are heavily invested in maintaining the capital status quo. How long will CCP allow 0.0 to be dominated by these one percenters who seek to keep the new player or the casual out of nullsec.

Does this fit CCP Seagulls vision laid out at fanfest of brave explorers venturing off into the unknown? Or do you need 60m skillpoints and a supercap first?


Lol at RL class warfare referances.

Entrenched? The CFC, who are raging about how they supposedly can't counter slowcats, somehow AREN'T the entrenched elite? The only difference between the two is the CFC and the Russians blob with subcaps and N3 are throwing slowcats back at them because thats the only fleet comp that works against superior numbers.

The reason I left sovnull was because of this very bulls**t.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#293 - 2013-12-26 19:33:06 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
it would be trivial to give them all the same scan res by just circle jerking RSB's so this bit here is something you've imagined being a thing.

Trivial, eh?


All our carriers carry 2-3 RSB's already and often have at least one fit.

I went over this on another forum already, using many pictures and math I showed how the Omni's aren't as important as you might think, and that theres more flexibility in the mids than people understand. Right now we're using two types of drones, and largely ignoring the other types because the Omni's give us enough range. Removing those for other things would just require us to use all 4 drone types.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#294 - 2013-12-26 19:38:30 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
The reason I left sovnull was because of this very bulls**t.

Sounds like you took it too seriously.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#295 - 2013-12-26 19:55:08 UTC  |  Edited by: M1k3y Koontz
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
The reason I left sovnull was because of this very bulls**t.

Sounds like you took it too seriously.


Sounds like you enjoy having a trained monkey shout propaganda and worn out memes at you in local and returning fire in the same fashion. Now I get to fight with spaceships rather than memes and don't have to deal with the idiotic politics. Much more fun.

But if you enjoy that, hey, to each his own :)

Edit: But when you come across someone who has come up with a fleet doctrine that you're not willing to field the counter to (dozens of Titans for DDs) don't go whining about it on the forums.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#296 - 2013-12-26 22:44:57 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
it would be trivial to give them all the same scan res by just circle jerking RSB's so this bit here is something you've imagined being a thing.

Trivial, eh?

Not bad.

So they wouldn't have all the omnidirectional tracking links on?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#297 - 2013-12-26 23:45:16 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
The reason I left sovnull was because of this very bulls**t.

Sounds like you took it too seriously.


Sounds like you enjoy having a trained monkey shout propaganda and worn out memes at you in local and returning fire in the same fashion. Now I get to fight with spaceships rather than memes and don't have to deal with the idiotic politics. Much more fun.

But if you enjoy that, hey, to each his own :)

So that's a yes, then.

M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Edit: But when you come across someone who has come up with a fleet doctrine that you're not willing to field the counter to (dozens of Titans for DDs) don't go whining about it on the forums.

What's the counter to titan blobs? A bigger titan blob. Who has more titans? N3PL. Gee I wonder why we don't try that.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#298 - 2013-12-26 23:46:39 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Leigh Akiga wrote:
Clearly the entrenched elite are heavily invested in maintaining the capital status quo. How long will CCP allow 0.0 to be dominated by these one percenters who seek to keep the new player or the casual out of nullsec.

Does this fit CCP Seagulls vision laid out at fanfest of brave explorers venturing off into the unknown? Or do you need 60m skillpoints and a supercap first?


Lol at RL class warfare referances.

Entrenched? The CFC, who are raging about how they supposedly can't counter slowcats, somehow AREN'T the entrenched elite? The only difference between the two is the CFC and the Russians blob with subcaps and N3 are throwing slowcats back at them because thats the only fleet comp that works against superior numbers.

The reason I left sovnull was because of this very bulls**t.

This just in, ONLY slowcats will work against superior numbers.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#299 - 2013-12-26 23:51:15 UTC
I'm not going to whine about drone assists in the classic way because I'm finding that argument kind of old and gauche.

But a long time ago I made a post on this forum that I'd love to see sentry drones work in a completely different method. Instead of staying static in one place they would orbit/follow the ship deploying them rather than sit in a single place on field. This would have positive and negative effects (See traversal would become more of an issue if the drones are moving too).

As far as assisting goes, I don't really see why drones are any different than fighters in that they allow a single pilot to control an unlimited number compared to say fighters where you can control as many as you can normally control drones. Either limit the drones to five per person, or let me zip around in a stilleto with 200 fighter bombers chasing me around. Either would make me happy.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#300 - 2013-12-27 00:12:46 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
The reason I left sovnull was because of this very bulls**t.

Sounds like you took it too seriously.


Sounds like you enjoy having a trained monkey shout propaganda and worn out memes at you in local and returning fire in the same fashion. Now I get to fight with spaceships rather than memes and don't have to deal with the idiotic politics. Much more fun.

But if you enjoy that, hey, to each his own :)

So that's a yes, then.

M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Edit: But when you come across someone who has come up with a fleet doctrine that you're not willing to field the counter to (dozens of Titans for DDs) don't go whining about it on the forums.

What's the counter to titan blobs? A bigger titan blob. Who has more titans? N3PL. Gee I wonder why we don't try that.

they are trying to bait our intelligent supercap FCs into a moronic welp

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?